CANbus theft.

[Rob Cowell]

Anyone worried? I asked Toyota UK if there were any "fixes" for the 150, I know Lexus are installing metal plates to make access to the usual connectors harder. Their response is, "We are currently working on a security update for affected models and would recommend registering your vehicle as eligible for this with your local Toyota Centre. In the meantime, you may wish to look into additional security measures such as a steering lock and a secondary immobiliser."

I'm not clear how new the car needs to be to have the components that make it vulnerable, but post October 2022 Land Cruisers should have been "fixed" prior to sale.

Toyota GB statement on vehicle theft - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club]

 

[chadr]

I wasn't even aware that is was a problem for Toyota tbh - I did know about the issues relating to JLR products, especially Range Rovers, simply because they have been widely publicised.

Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Grimbo]

I was told the R Rover all you need to do is break a rear light cluster and get access to the Can ....
Those who have either been in or know member's of the RAC and AA patrols will be aware for years all the known "hacks" to get cars unlocked have been readily available....
They range from giving the floor pan under the passenger side of a vehicle ( obvs not going to name ) a hefty wack with a hammer , to putting a power probe into the wiring from the reverse light switch to power up the vehicle..... the era of Can Bus has actually made vehicle theft easier and keyless even more so .
The guys who are taking the vehicles are often seconds behind the manufacturers so to speak as each "fix" is released .
In farming the theft of the guidance kit from vehicle's is common and can be well over £30ks worth of kit per vehicle.... sadly given my involvement with this industry I believe unfortunately dealer trained staff must be involved in some way as much of the kit is hidden around various vehicles and not easy to remove .... I strongly suspect it's the same with any vehicle theft .

 

[Shayne]

Petrol Shut-off Solenoid Valve for CNG LPG Aspirated System Gas Conversion | eBay - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club]

 

[Towpack]

There's numerous ways you can disable a vehicle with a hidden switch and that's what I'd be doing if I owned one.

 

[karl2000]

Does the 120 even use canbus?

 

[chadr]

There's numerous ways you can disable a vehicle with a hidden switch and that's what I'd be doing if I owned one.

I'm no expert on these "ways" usually involve an isolation switch or cut-off for the battery - which would work for older vehicles that don't have too many electronics but not sure whether that would be OK for more modern vehicles that rely on the power supply being available to various modules, even when the vehicle is not being driven.

Happy to be corrected if I'm barking up the wrong immobiliser

 

[GeekOKent]

On the 120 I think the canbus only hosts a few things. The 150 maybe more (ignition included ?)

 

[karl2000]

Any docs?

 

[Shayne]

Eleckrickery is not my thing but a solenoid is just an on/off switch and the ignition barrel mechanical in essence .

Could you not tap into say the glow plug wire so a fuel shut off valve is opened/closed with the key on/off .

Surely the ECU wouldn't even know its there ?

 

[Grimbo]

Eleckrickery is not my thing but a solenoid is just an on/off switch and the ignition barrel mechanical in essence .

Could you not tap into say the glow plug wire so a fuel shut off valve is opened/closed with the key on/off .

Surely the ECU wouldn't even know its there ?

120's and 150's are not my thing but I reckon the 120 has a fair bit of Can and a 150 a heck of a lot of it would be on the network.... engine crank is often now through the engine ECU and one of the big attractions to manufacturers is a Can network needs far less expensive copper wiring so the looms are cheaper and smaller .

CanBus in it's self is a great thing as all the parts of a vehicle can "talk" to each other and also you need far fewer individual electrical connectors and as anyone who works on kit that's working in a hostile environment will tell you the connectors are the weak point in a loom and often the first source of issues .

The issue with CAN is also the fact that if powered up many of the ECUs can be accessed via the CAN... no longer are the engine , trans , body and security ECU's stand alone this is the weak link...add in the fact keyless entry requires some to be powered up permanently waiting for a signal and to preserve the volatile memory in the ECU's if you can gain access to the CAN your pretty much free to play .

As for ECU's not "knowing" things are there...... many of the systems now know the resistance of the full circuit including all the items plugged into it ..... disconnect a sensor or add a non genuine Chineseum sensor with the resistance slightly different and it will start sending error codes.... a lot of the kit I work on "knows" if a wire is shorted to earth or to another containing a voltage be it 5 , 8, 10 or 12 volts ( all of these are common voltages used around a 12 volt vehicle )

 

[GeekOKent]

Any docs?

None that I could find I tried to find some docs around the pre obd-2 specs and came up short. The first ring includes the fuel injection and the drive train side ( but not the suspension controls ), and the 4th ring is the entertainment system, all the milage records and the locking system. I was never able to workout anything more.

If someone can find the tech stream specs, could start working back from there

 

[Shayne]

not my thing

be as much mine as a pint of milk and I'd let insurers worry about it .

 

[pompeyprado]

I'm seriously debating adding a Ghost immobiliser. It attaches to the CAN and prevents start, even with the key present until a code is entered using the existing buttons within the car (volume up, volume down, window up etc.)

Only thing holding me back - I've heard rare cases where this can interfere with the cars other systems and I'm not sure how it will affect the warranty on the car. From what I can find online, it does seem to entirely prevent CAN based theft (essentially rendering the car un-stealable unless it is towed away).

 

[Raj]

I'm seriously debating adding a Ghost immobiliser. It attaches to the CAN and prevents start, even with the key present until a code is entered using the existing buttons within the car (volume up, volume down, window up etc.)

Only thing holding me back - I've heard rare cases where this can interfere with the cars other systems and I'm not sure how it will affect the warranty on the car. From what I can find online, it does seem to entirely prevent CAN based theft (essentially rendering the car un-stealable unless it is towed away).

I got ghost on both of my cars. For me it’s working fine without issues. I know friends who got this on a Mercedes and BMW. They were fine too.
One friend had it on Mustang Mache. He had few problems with it and his 12 volt battery died few times and car won’t start. It’s under warranty so he had to tow it to Ford. Ford sorted out the issue but asked him to get rid of Ghost.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

A Ghost immobiliser will hold up an attempted theft almost indefinitely. I have one on the latest acquisition, along with a Ghost tracker and a Diamond Edition Disklok.
Apart from the faff of the button sequence, which becomes second nature I can't see a negative for having one, especially given the number of RR products and a couple of newer Hilux's stolen in our village alone off peoples drives in the middle of the night. They even stole a pretty new Rav4 from my neighbour opposite.
I put a Disklok on my Hilux every night but it's a 15 plate and might be not as desirable for the tea leaves.

 

[Raj]

As Andy mentioned, visual deterrent and actual immobiliser are necessary if going for security. I am thinking of scorpion tracker too but too many things and apps to remember/monitor. Delaying tracker for now.
We don’t have this discussion much here as our cars are not in desired by majority but on Mache and EV6 forums I read a lot.

 

[pompeyprado]

Great thanks for the feedback, will book in for the ghost! Does seem like a no brainer to me.

 

[JohnfromUK]

There is now (Feb 2025) an official Toyota CANbus blocker available. Only been available for a short time and Toyota dealers are not yet 'up to speed' on knowing about it. Some info about it in C-HR forum here - see post No 63 in thread which is dated 12th January 2025.

 

[pompeyprado]

I don't see a link? Is that just a plate that goes over the OBD port?