3.0 D4D will not start when hot

[Chris]

OK this is a for a mate who has a D4D Collie and loves it but isn't a forum kinda guy. Saw him today asked him how it was running. He replied, well it isn't really. I can't tell you any more than I am posting here, so no good asking me questions. I just need suggestions for him. It goes like this.

The truck will not start when hot. I don't mean it takes a while - it WON'T start at ALL when hot. You can wind the key until it's flat he tells me. If he leaves it a couple of hours until it's just warm then it starts fine. But he's actually having to carry a spare charged battery around with him and jump leads to make sure he isn't stuck.
I did suggest fitting a non return valve in the fuel line just in case it was an air hole in the pipe somewhere. He says he's done that and it's making no difference.
He's not reporting any smoke or anything odd. It just will not fire when hot.
It can really only be air, compression or fuel. I doubt it's compression.
Whilst the common factor is that it only happens when hot, I wouldn't be completely distracted by that. He's been to a garage who have plugged it in and there's nothing showing. Well that doesn't surprise me at all.

It's something to do with the fuel system including the fuel shut off, the pump maybe, filters, lines etc etc. But I can't think what being hot would affect. If it has air, compression and fuel then it will start.

Logical thoughts please and a reminder that it's no good aking me questions such as"Has he .. Does it ..." etc etc because I can't tell you.
Ideas??

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

I'd have it over to Oliver Laws in Killamarsh on 07572 454454. He's the guy who fitted the injectors on the 120, he's Toyota trained and has 3 or 4 Cruisers himself.
Thats as much as I can suggest as I havn't had any experience of D4D faults.

 

[TonyP]

I assume it runs fine until he turns it off and then no start? I was thinking it could be the ECU, so a dry joint or something like that, but I would expect that to cut out if it was the case.... hmm

 

[Chris]

Certainly could be something to do with injectors I guess. Also the ECU I suppose but it' snot an intermittent fault by all accounts. it's every time.
Andy you know the owner by the way. He's in Clay Cross.

 

[goodoldboy]

A fusebox dry joint was diagnosed on my 95 after almost 2 years of intermittent cold starting problems.It was temperature related , cold nights were causing the problem. In my experience with diesels fuel problems tend to be more vague than this .An air leak could be temp. related but is the fuel system really exposed to big temp. differences ?
" Whilst the common factor is that it only happens when hot, I wouldn't be completely distracted by that"
exactly the rabbit hole i went down thinking that the low temps. meant thicker diesel & so a fuel problem.

 

[Shayne]

Loads of sensors plugged in around the throttle body on a d4d 90 so cleaning them would be my first move before pulling the intercooler for a look to see how coked up the intake is . Heat reduces oxygen in air and if air available is already reduced by a dirty intake well oxygen provides the spark .

 

[bandsnbrakes]

Seen this before. did tank feed pipes, checked the pickup. no difference. changed the suction control valves and high pressure pump still no difference. Changed all 4 injectors FIXED never been a problem since. and NO there wont be any codes or excessive injection adjustment feedback values. The highest one was 3 from memory which although not great did not get to the bad value of 5. Id suggest you pull the injectors first and get them tested. Not saying this will fix it but this was my experience with this issue. When it was running with the bad injectors accelerator response was not particularly crisp. different with new injectors. Has it had bad fuel in it at all? Those d4ds do not like it.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Yes Chris, I thought it would be that guy. I was talking to him recently ( before the problem manifested itself) and he said how well it was running but was saving up to have the injectors changed as he thought they were getting ready. Whats it done now, 185+K?

 

[Chris]

Thanks guys some good thoughts there. I will see if I can follow up with some of these for him. Had a neighbour with a D4D that just wouldn't pull. Turned out to be a sensor. £80 later and it went like a bomb. So it could be something like that which is being fooled somehow.

 

[Chris]

Speaking to him today it seems that from cold it starts and drives perfectly. No issues and it's a daily drive not an off roader or anything. Just. But once hot just won't re start. The needle has to have dropped virtually to cold to fire up again.
I wondered about fuel shut off and even the immobiliser.

 

[Shayne]

Both would be doing what their supposed to do so the dash would be telling him they are doing it . Sticky throttle body butterfly might that do it .

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Check the key reader module on the side of the ignition barrel hasn't come loose, it happens and the key isn't read as well as it might be.

 

[Beau]

So when hot, if he was to turn it off, and attempt to restart it instantly, will it? If not, I think this would eliminate fuel issues.

Also what if his suction control valve is on the way out and not performing right when hot? I know resistance changes with temp? Maybe pour some cold water around that fuel pump area and try starting it when hot and see if that makes a difference?

When he's attempting to start it back, does the RPM needle move or is it flat? This would confirm whether the RPM sensor on the pump is working which is essential in telling the truck to fire up.

 

[JohnnyB]

Hi Guys, I just wondered if there was an update on whether this problem was ever fixed?
My mums got this problem on her '97 J90 where she will drive for over an hour, stop, and then the car will not start. She has to wait around 25 minutes before it will.

She claims that it won't even turn the engine over, does that mean it's likely to be immobiliser issue? It's just strange that the engine being hot would affect it this way

Any more help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Chris]

Actually not much. I spoke to the guy last weekend. He put a non return valve in the fuel line as per one of my suggestions. When I say him a little later, He'd put it in the return line not the supply! When I spoke to him last weekend, he'd moved it and said that as long as someone pumped the primer on the filter when he turned the key, it fired up.

So I can't say exactly why the hottness of the engine affects starting when it being cold doesn't, but it does seem tp point toward being a fuel supply issue. We all know that the primer does deteriorate after time and tends to perforate as does the metal fuel line over the tank.

If it won't turn over, then that's something totally different I'd suggest. This would turn over to the point it would flatten the battery.

 

[Shayne]

97 is likely a 1kz-te so different engine though the non return valve is a good idea , if it doesn't help search the forum for spill control valve .

 

[JohnnyB]

OK I'll have a look for it.

She's had new batteries fitted and her local garage had a look but they apparently don't have the diagnostic software to diagnose any fault codes. (she's getting the feeling they're fobbing her off).

I'll keep digging.

 

[Bert]

This has been interesting.
My wife has a Toyota Rav 4 that will not start when hot. She has to wait 20-25 minutes for it to cool down before it's even worth attempting to start it again.
She basically has to plan every journey around this issue, and God forbid stalling the vehicle in the road!
To date, we have found no silver bullet to cure this issue, and because of the age of the vehicle, it's just not worth exploring too far because of the costs involved, i.e. pulling and checking injectors.
It is rather frustrating. As soon as the temp guage drops below halfway, the bugger will fire up.

 

[Chris]

And that is the issue isn't it. These won't fire up when hot. Now, I had a 1KZ-TE that was hard to start cold, because the head had cracked and it pulled in coolant from the jacket. But when hot? I've tried to think of things that would be affected by heat but not when the engine is actually running.

Problem with my mate's is that I've not been around to try and start his under these conditions. And he's about as much use as a cat in a tumble drier when it comes to car mechanics.

 

[JohnnyB]

Yes it is the 1KZ-TE. I'm sort of in the same situation as she lives 200 miles away and she not very mechanically minded so it's a struggle to diagnose it without being with the car.
And I don't think she'll want to go to a mechanic and tell them what to do to try and fix it as they've been unsuccessful so far.