With the "stay at home" restriction now lifted I thought I'd do some local lanes after tea and came across this at the top of Pindale and also on Dirtlow Rake. No other signs regarding Byway status so I think this is just to put the frighteners on.
Anti-laning gathers pace....
- Thread starter Towpack
- Start date
Interesting, and yes I’d say there to frighten.
Interesting it says “in a manner that constitutes an offence”. So if it’s a byway and you are legal (as in tax, mot, insurance) then surely it wouldn’t be an offence?
Although section 59 states
Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
(1)Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which—
(a)contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b)is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
(2)A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
(3)Those powers are—
(a)power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b)power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c)power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d)power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).
(4)A constable shall not seize a motor vehicle in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by this section unless—
(a)he has warned the person appearing to him to be the person whose use falls within subsection (1) that he will seize it, if that use continues or is repeated; and
(b)it appears to him that the use has continued or been repeated after the the warning.
(5)Subsection (4) does not require a warning to be given by a constable on any occasion on which he would otherwise have the power to seize a motor vehicle under this section if—
(a)the circumstances make it impracticable for him to give the warning;
(b)the constable has already on that occasion given a warning under that subsection in respect of any use of that motor vehicle or of another motor vehicle by that person or any other person;
(c)the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that such a warning has been given on that occasion otherwise than by him; or
(d)the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the person whose use of that motor vehicle on that occasion would justify the seizure is a person to whom a warning under that subsection has been given (whether or not by that constable or in respect the same vehicle or the same or a similar use) on a previous occasion in the previous twelve months.
(6)A person who fails to comply with an order under subsection (3)(a) is guilty of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
(7)Subsection (3)(c) does not authorise entry into a private dwelling house.
(8)The powers conferred on a constable by this section shall be exercisable only at a time when regulations under section 60 are in force.
(9)In this section—
The part 1 a - “is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public, he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3)” is the interesting bit.
What constitutes “annoyance”?
Interesting it says “in a manner that constitutes an offence”. So if it’s a byway and you are legal (as in tax, mot, insurance) then surely it wouldn’t be an offence?
Although section 59 states
Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
(1)Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which—
(a)contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b)is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
(2)A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
(3)Those powers are—
(a)power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b)power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c)power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d)power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).
(4)A constable shall not seize a motor vehicle in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by this section unless—
(a)he has warned the person appearing to him to be the person whose use falls within subsection (1) that he will seize it, if that use continues or is repeated; and
(b)it appears to him that the use has continued or been repeated after the the warning.
(5)Subsection (4) does not require a warning to be given by a constable on any occasion on which he would otherwise have the power to seize a motor vehicle under this section if—
(a)the circumstances make it impracticable for him to give the warning;
(b)the constable has already on that occasion given a warning under that subsection in respect of any use of that motor vehicle or of another motor vehicle by that person or any other person;
(c)the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that such a warning has been given on that occasion otherwise than by him; or
(d)the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the person whose use of that motor vehicle on that occasion would justify the seizure is a person to whom a warning under that subsection has been given (whether or not by that constable or in respect the same vehicle or the same or a similar use) on a previous occasion in the previous twelve months.
(6)A person who fails to comply with an order under subsection (3)(a) is guilty of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
(7)Subsection (3)(c) does not authorise entry into a private dwelling house.
(8)The powers conferred on a constable by this section shall be exercisable only at a time when regulations under section 60 are in force.
(9)In this section—
- “driving” has the same meaning as in the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52);
- “motor vehicle” means any mechanically propelled vehicle, whether or not it is intended or adapted for use on roads; and
- “private dwelling house” does not include any garage or other structure occupied with the dwelling house, or any land appurtenant to the dwelling house.
The part 1 a - “is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public, he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3)” is the interesting bit.
What constitutes “annoyance”?
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I think the supposed lock down itself has caused this issue. Certainly seems to be the case around here. Basically the pay and plays have been shut. The dirt monkeys who enjoy thrashing scrappers to death round the quarries have simply moved on to the lanes. At one point there were 3 scrap discoverys stuck ,plates ripped off and abandoned where they died.Some of the thetford forest byways are shut for the next 6 months at least due to ruts that have been turned into 4 foot deep mud runs on them. One incident a while back during heavy rain saw 27 vehicles stranded in 200 yards of byway. A6x6 ex army lorry was called to help clear it . I've no issue with beating up an old 4x4 round a play site, done it myself many times but right time right place. This behaviour is just another nail in the coffin for green laning. If we don't use them we will lose them. If they are used in a dangerous or anti social way we lose them.
That's the tricky bit. If some nimby with a camera phone takes "offence" at you just being there then is that enough?
This is where a dash cam or, in my case, a helmet cam could come in handy as proof of your riding/driving.
That's a good point. There was a 4x4 pickup parked halfway down with some lads riding an unplated bike in the adjacent quarry. 30yds past the pickup was a burnt out car. No sign at the bottom of the track though.
The the dirtbike moped muppets were doing doughnuts on a well kept and planted grass verge near traffic lights on the main road to Cardiff airport yesterday . I slowed down because they were in front of me so i could see them overtaking on the wrong side of a central barrier and brow of a hill , out of sight but i fully expected to find one of them lay injured or dead on the road around the next bend or the next on way home but no they had vanished .
Swambo was on the same route because she walked up to get her jab and arrived home half hour later to report about 20 police and 3 ambulances and the same 6 bikes .
Strange to think i was one of those kids once standing on the seat with my arms out balancing at 60mph and pulling wheelies around town ................. but never with such disrespect for others , nobody ever had to clean up after me and if things went wrong only i was gonna get hurt .
Swambo was on the same route because she walked up to get her jab and arrived home half hour later to report about 20 police and 3 ambulances and the same 6 bikes .
Strange to think i was one of those kids once standing on the seat with my arms out balancing at 60mph and pulling wheelies around town ................. but never with such disrespect for others , nobody ever had to clean up after me and if things went wrong only i was gonna get hurt .
I don't think it should frighten anyone who is driving sensibly. There's a big "drive" where I live to cut down on the anti-social actions of motorcross / enduro bike riders. Like any community they have their idiots. I've been sprayed a few times with stones as they come past when I'm on a mountain bike, and they've been pissing off the downhillers riding on designated MTB tracks and wrecking the surface. No one (where I ride) minds the considerate riders, and none of it is green lane / BOAT; they're not legally supposed to be on any of it.
We have almost zero public right of way lanes over on our island. Land ownership is a massively sensitive issue here, and state owned land is all barriered off, as are the hundreds of km of logging tracks in the hills where I live. There's no acceptance of 4x4 activity either. The Irish army has a tank/truck driver training ground on public/common land near where I grew up. It is openly accessible and very easy to find. I took the cruiser in one day not long after I bought it, to see how it handled some trails and a local out walking had a right old go at me, accusing me of destroying natural habitats and the amenity for locals to walk in... He had little answer when I asked if he shouted the same objections when a fleet of 8x8 MOWAG personnel carriers were on maneuvers on that trail.
I've never gone back. I do, however get the issue of the few idiots destroying the reputation of the majority. I am reminded of the absolute goon who drove a Frontera up snowdon a number of years back..
I've never gone back. I do, however get the issue of the few idiots destroying the reputation of the majority. I am reminded of the absolute goon who drove a Frontera up snowdon a number of years back..
Had a run over Dirtlow and down Pindale again today and got talking to a local moutain biker from Bradwell about the warning signs. He said that they did have a lot of trouble with people going out there, during the full lock downs and driving "off piste" over farmland and private moorland, sometimes in vehicles that were obviously stolen and leaving burnt out wrecks. Once again the mindless minority spoiling it for everyone, now isn't that a surprise....NOT!
Covid , the 5G network causing their brain to implode .... ?
Not sure what's going on in the world but the level of selfish and stupid behaviour seems to be spiralling out of control.
I do wonder if it's a result of a generation of parents who never used the word NO to their kids and this has 20 odd years on come back to bite society on the arse big time .... round here at the moment we have people wandering all over the country side with no regard to crops or livestock let alone keeping to footpaths usually with 2 or 3 screaming kids that they have little or no control over or lack the will or gumption to do so.... God knows what they will be like when they have kids .
We have a lot of green lanes round our way, But more and more are being closed by the council and Barriers and notices going up.. I have nothing against the green lanners at all but more and more lanes are being used by the Morons, And to get from lane to lane they have to come through the Villages.... Motorcross lads are Normally on the back wheel as they come through, Number plates, exhausts, Helmets seem to be optional... And the 4x4 crew always seem to be Disco 2, Clearly not fit for anything else than Off roading...... Shame some ruin it for the Genuine Green Lanners. When By-Ways are shared with Walkers, cyclists, Horses, Motorcross, 4x4 etc. There will always be conflict...... Iv ridden Bikes all my life, But the one thing i cant abide is the sound of a Two stroke Motorcross Bike 
....Seriously
....Seriously
We live down a cul-de-sac in the middle of nowhere. Cars used to come down and park. Drugs prostitutes dog litter big time 24/7 365. Then we had a new neighbour who was not aware of this problem until he moved in. He found that although our lane is tarmacced and maintained by the Local Authority it is only a Bridleway and only the 5 houses here are allowed to use it. The lane is 25 ft wide with only 8 ft tarmac. So,, (he lives on the end) he built a huge earth bank so nobody could park outside his house. They all started parking outside mine so I had 9 x 1/2 tonne stone blocks delivered. The the balloon really went up with my neighbour being targeted and him having fights in the lane and dragging people out of their cars at midnight. Police, Council turned up and we all had a loud meeting in the lane with Karl (neighbour) telling police they were not doing their jobs and he started legal action against both. A miracle happened. We were both given notices of intended prosecution to put on peoples cars and The Local Authority put No Entry signs up at the bottom of the lane. That's been a year now and I have not seen a car for 6 months. Hats of to Karl, talk about obsessed and determined.
Devil's advocate
Big padlock and chain on the local forests when i was a kid and signs saying no access to motor vehicles , but you could lift the gate off its hinges and open it the opposite way
Caterpillar tracks ran lanes all through and to this day i can't imagine what harm we did racing each other on scramble bikes in a forest that had no other visitors . Same with the old fenced off mines . I guess they were all closed for our safety
We would close the gate on entry and again when we left harming nobody or nothing .
Police knew who we were but i think it was generally accepted that chasing kids on motorbikes from our village was unwise , I maybe lent credence to that wisdom when i did my Evel Knievel lunatic 20ft leap from the back of the petrol station down to the old railway tracks on a Honda melody scooter with police on my tail
One of the cops made a private call to my house the next day "jesus Shayne we were only going to ask you to wear a helmet"
I got my first driving ban when i was 15 - caught twice with no tax and insurance and being a dumb kid it never occurred to me to explain to the judge that i couldn't get a licence but i had to leave for work at 5am and sometimes didn't finish until after midnight .
I did explain to the copper who caught me though , even offered to take him to my house so i could show him all the forms filled in , my insurance quotes an envelope of money to cover the cost and even a new tax disk holder all waiting for my 16th birthday . But alas he was much more interested in enforcing the premise that all policemen are wankers .
So i ask - where should they go ?
Big padlock and chain on the local forests when i was a kid and signs saying no access to motor vehicles , but you could lift the gate off its hinges and open it the opposite way
Caterpillar tracks ran lanes all through and to this day i can't imagine what harm we did racing each other on scramble bikes in a forest that had no other visitors . Same with the old fenced off mines . I guess they were all closed for our safety
We would close the gate on entry and again when we left harming nobody or nothing .
Police knew who we were but i think it was generally accepted that chasing kids on motorbikes from our village was unwise , I maybe lent credence to that wisdom when i did my Evel Knievel lunatic 20ft leap from the back of the petrol station down to the old railway tracks on a Honda melody scooter with police on my tail
One of the cops made a private call to my house the next day "jesus Shayne we were only going to ask you to wear a helmet"
I got my first driving ban when i was 15 - caught twice with no tax and insurance and being a dumb kid it never occurred to me to explain to the judge that i couldn't get a licence but i had to leave for work at 5am and sometimes didn't finish until after midnight .
I did explain to the copper who caught me though , even offered to take him to my house so i could show him all the forms filled in , my insurance quotes an envelope of money to cover the cost and even a new tax disk holder all waiting for my 16th birthday . But alas he was much more interested in enforcing the premise that all policemen are wankers .
So i ask - where should they go ?
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We have a lot of green lanes round our way, But more and more are being closed by the council and Barriers and notices going up.. I have nothing against the green lanners at all but more and more lanes are being used by the Morons... Iv ridden Bikes all my life, But the one thing i cant abide is the sound of a Two stroke Motorcross Bike
The sad thing about lane closures is it only stops the law abiding laners with legal vehicles, not the morons and they can be determined. Barriers can be and are torn down or bypassed. Rural Police depts are under just as much pressure financially and staff wise as their urban counterparts and have more pressing issues. Ten years ago there used to be fairly regular clamp downs run co operatively between S Yorkshire and Derbyshire Police, stopping and checking vehicles for legality on the BOATs and UCRs but I can't remember the last time I saw any enforcement. Parts of the track down Pindale are registered SSSI's with a potential £25000 fine. A few years back some bikers were caught off piste and taken to court. Fortunately for them they had some lagal representation, from the TRF I think, who won the case. Shortly after, clear signage was put up along the track indicating the SSSI areas but they quickly disappeared. Parts of the moorland either side of Houndkirk road are also SSSIs but they're regularly carved up by 4x4's.
The answer to that will definitely not fit on a postcard.
maybe 40 years of politicians telling us that it's everyone for themselves , grab what you can ? Part of this message is that the consequences of our actions are other peoples problem.Any idea of a society with collective interests or responsibility has been systematically destroyed .
Back in the 70s we used to rag different bikes around a nearby building site on weekends - we all had a 5 quid share in changing lineup of old shaggers .One Sunday a bloke who was watching from one of the newly built houses called us over & said " you've had your fun lads , see you next week " off we went.When we were older we used to trailer some proper crossers to some of the old pits and quarries in the area .this was when the police started to clamp down on things.A more innocent but also more tolerant time maybe ?
I was at a T junction on my 1933 Norton in 1962. Police bike came down. I was not old enough for licence etc, no plates on the bike, no lights. He stopped and told me off. My house was opposite so he stood in the middle of the road, stopped the traffic and waved me down my drive. Proper job.