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At last - I have found the problem with my transmission.

Chris Aug 29, 2016

  1. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    Well I think I will be able to sleep again. As some of you may know I have been plagued with a noise in my transmission that has proven almost impossible to trace. It all started with a standard manual GS 24v Manual running standard diffs.

    Almost in one go, I swapped the diffs for ones from my auto that had only done 79,000 miles (Silver Phoenix) which weren't needed as I put in 4.56's to cope with the 37's. So these diffs had done nothing.

    I put on 35's. I also put in a new transfer box to gain the viscous coupling and finally a pretty new 100 series 5 speed box. As well of course as a big lift from EFS. On over run especially I was getting a grumble / rumble noise which sounded pretty worrying. Trying to solve this has seen three transfer boxes, two gearboxes, drop boxes for the suspension and hours and hours of grief.

    Yesterday I pulled the diff. On the short axle, everything looked good. On the long side, there was a definite loss of grease in the CV. I believe that the vibration that I have been having has caused the grease to flow out of the CV as it really doesn't move otherwise. I have been managing the vibration by balancing the throttle to minimise the effect. You can see the CV grease effect here. All the extra grease was sitting in the knuckle.


    Screen Shot 2016-08-29 at 09.51.48.jpg

    I have put an old and worn diff in and the vibration has gone but I can't stand the whine I get from it. So this morning I pulled the original diff apart.

    Errm, any metallurgists out there? It's only the main carrier bearing. All the others are fine. Not every roller is like this, most yes, but it's an odd pattern.

    Screen Shot 2016-08-29 at 09.33.01.jpg

    Screen Shot 2016-08-29 at 09.33.13.jpg


    Screen Shot 2016-08-29 at 09.33.24.jpg



    These were original OEM Koyo bearings. So hopefully a clean and tune up and it will be back in action.

    It does mean pulling the axle apart again, but I can do that pretty much blindfolded now. And if there's no other work to do it's pretty quick.

    So that's hopefully that. I couldn't see the bearings in situ of course but I used the Milwaukee to spin it up using the pinion and immediately got the same phasing / grinding noise I hear in the cabin.

    And relax ....
     
  2. Lorin

    Lorin Well-Known Member

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    Nice one Chris. Finally solving a lon-running vehicular based frustration is extremely satisfying and a great relief.
     
  3. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    Why didn't you look there first Chris, it would have saved a load of grief... :whistle:


    Runs and hides.... :shifty:

    Well done matey, what a relief. Certainly a strange wear pattern on those rollers, it only takes one to chip and the debris does the rest, but you'd expect to see all the rollers affected.
     
  4. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    Now there's an idea Clive. Why didn't I look at the 79k diff that seemed fine when I drove it. Good question. I know I know.

    Yes it's strange that no all rollers have it. I wonder if it's corrosion led rather than say swarf in there. It sat for 8 years in a yard so maybe there's some effect like Brinelling going on where parts don't move for a long time.

    All in bits, cleaned and scrubbed ready for new bearings at the weekend.
     
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  5. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Supporter Guru

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    I think curiosity would have me send a pic to Koyo , you never know you might get something for nothing in return .
     
  6. stumog

    stumog Well-Known Member I am in england

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    That wear pattern on a bearing roller is corrosion. Sometimes you get the same wear if the bearing is bouncing. Which to be fair you are getting also. So I expect it was rusted being sat in one place and the made worse being used.

    This is why you must rotate large bearings and motors if sat on the shelf to long .

    Companies used to go around and turn them on a monthly basis.

    Most people have forgotten this process now.
     
    Chas likes this.
  7. Chas

    Chas Well-Known Member Supporter I am in england

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    Untraceable noises can drive you mad, I had a Nissan 200SX that developed a high pitched whine like a turbo whistle and I spent ages trying to trace it.
    I eventually took it back to the garage I bought it from and we went out for a drive, there it is I said as the noise appeared, that's a rattle says your man and slipped a small wedge of paper under the trim on the transmission tunnel, noise gone.
    It had been such a quite loud high pitched noise it was the last thing I would have thought of checking for.
    I wonder it that piece of paper is still there?
     
  8. frank rabbets

    frank rabbets Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I've seen that several times over the years. Mbikes cars etc but fortunately before fitting. If the rollers are wet and still they lie in a puddle of water and rust on just one side. A small amount of rust leads to deterioration. I've never heard one running though but yours would defo not be a constant whine associated with a uniformly worn bearing.

    Something well worth remembering.
     
  9. karl webster

    karl webster Land Cruiser Club sponsor Promoted Company Land Cruiser Club Promoted Company

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    Glad you have found it. I've never been happy with you having the transfer and having issues.
    At least you now know :)
    So you have two transfers for sale and a good manual box

    Always a good feeling finally getting somewhere
     
  10. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    Thanks boys. yes Karl, I could set up a business with the bits I have from trying to fix this. There have been a number of issues that I have sorted along the way though, it's not all been this. But I feel like a man released from prison on appeal, honestly it's been worse than toothache. I'll pick up bearings tomorrow and get started at the weekend. This week's far too busy.

    I am already thinking about putting that Amazon box back in. Noooo somebody stop me ....
     
  11. Gary820

    Gary820 Well-Known Member I am in great_britain

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    Result Chris. It's done well milage wise with a knackered bearing
     
  12. karl webster

    karl webster Land Cruiser Club sponsor Promoted Company Land Cruiser Club Promoted Company

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    So are you back on the original transfer and original gearbox now. Sorry if it's been mentioned already lol
     
  13. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    Karl, you're confused? You should try it from my end mate. OK I am back with the original factory 1995 24v manual box with the tricky second gear. I have a transfer box with VC from Triggers. And the original diff from the white one that burned out. That has been tuned up by Dr W, but still whines like a bitch due to pitting in the teeth. Other than that it's a good one. So, get new bearings and rebuild the one on the bench out of the 79k miler and put it back into the truck. If that is whisper quiet, I might - stress MIGHT have a go with the 100 box again. It had a superb gear change. Like a new one. Obviously it calls into question all of the noises I have had with various boxes doesn't it. To think I nearly bought another new box for £750!!!!

    This leaves me in stock with a petrol tranny box and a non VC tranny box too. Plus the 100 Amazon 5 speed.
     
    clivehorridge likes this.
  14. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Suspected corrosion due to standing as soon as I saw the picture, and agree with Stu's comments. Only some of the bearing will have been sitting in oil during its long storage, the exposed rollers would have been subject to condensation during the seasons, which would have promoted the corrosion.

    Most may have forgotten that components in store needs it's bearings rotating periodically but you'll be pleased to know that the rail industry hasn't, we spend tens of thousands to be able to exercise good stock stored components.

    Cars like to be driven regularly to keep them from degrading, a good reason to take the Cruiser instead of the daily.

    Good work Chris. At least it lasted all this time, gave plenty of warning of pending trouble and got you home.
     
  15. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    Incredible it's done like 10k miles at least. Thing is that the pattern in the bearing doesn't look like a half dip. Some in and some out of the oil. There are rollers in between rotten ones that look fine. Anyhoo. All in the scrap bin now but man did that pinion bearing take some pressing off.
     
  16. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    I certainly agree with Scott that cars appreciate being driven. It's my main reason for using the 80 as my DD, honest.

    My missus can't understand why I don't use the little economical city runabout we have for city driving. I hate it, and I said I hated it before we bought it and I keep saying it. It's 3 years old soon with 3,500 km on the clock :laughing-rolling:
     
  17. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    Seals go the same way if you don't drive them regulalry. I had no end of leaks on the silver one when I first started to use if after putting a new autobox in it. Most of the seals had gone rock hard.
     
  18. Gary Stockton

    Gary Stockton Super Moderator Supporter I am in zimbabwe

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    Excellent result Chris - glad it's sorted (well - almost) and you now know wtf it was at least - it did have you pretty conerned for many Spanish kilometers ...
     
  19. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    Certainly did Gary. I thought something large and spiky was going to burst through the floor pan on several occasions.
     
  20. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    Slipped over to Milner today and managed to pick up all four bearings. 2 were genuine Toyota Koyo and the other pair were Koyo. Very decent packaging including holographic seals on the boxes which to the doubters will clearly indicate they're fakes, naturally.

    I have just been repeating in my head prep, prep, prep all weekend and think before hitting it.

    I took my time this evening, donning my surgical gown and mask and installed the bearings and races. They went in beautifully with no dramas at all. I put the pinion in the freezer to shrink it down a little just to give me a fighting chance. Getting the old race off took huge pressure in the press. It's chunky little mother is that one.

    Clean, clean, clean all the way. So, I'm at the point where the diff is reassembled, but not finished. For those of you familiar with diff builds, which I am not, it's a game of two steps forward and one back all of the time. You need to install one component in order to set another. Then you have to take it all out again and start over to set the original bit. A little laborious but satisfying.

    So far it genuinely has gone swimmingly well. I'm away now til the weekend so won't be able to touch it for a bit, but it's assembled in draft and spinning. Honestly it's near silent and that dry! So, I have to set the pinion engagement and set the ring gear back lash on my return then install the pinion for the last time and we're good to go. Might chuck it back into the axle if I get some decent weather. So if there's anyone around who wants to see an axle build let me know!
    Fingers really are crossed for a super quite drive after doing this. I was scared of building a front diff, but actually now I realise whilst not something to mess with if you are clueless, you CAN do if you're at least a halfwit.

    How the hell does Ben take pictures when he does all of this stuff. I just don't have time nor patience.
     
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