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Where's the sun gone?
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Beware travelling in Spain!
- Thread starter Dave2000
- Start date
goodoldboy
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- Apr 30, 2010
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A temporary state of affairs - normal service will be resumed soon.....
Ah, so it was you that got 'the' cloud that week!
Wondered where it went after it left us.
regards
Dave
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
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- 5,515
It rained on us Dave.
Just an update to Spanish motoring/pedestrian laws. These were submitted for approval IIRC last year and have now pretty much come into force. Interesting is the raising of speed limits to 130kph (over 80 MPH), but no change in the signage yet so a grey area at the moment..
Bigger fines for those prepared to get behind the wheel when double the limit.
I particularly liked the pedestrians getting breathalysed and drug tested for not crossing in the appropriate place.
I don't like the idea that you can be fined because the police officer was busy doing something else, way too open to abuse.
No 7 was a ridiculous law anyway, so is rightly changed, but No 1, allowing the adult cyclists to ride a cycle without head protection is just as ridiculous.
1. Helmets mandatory in cities for cyclists under 16. After a long row over safety issues, the Popular Party has backtracked on its intention to make helmets mandatory for all riders within municipal limits. In the end, only minors will have to wear them. Not doing so could lead to fines of €200 for parents.
2. Small children may not ride in the front seat. Law enforcement officers will be able to stop and fine drivers carrying children under 1.35 meters in the front passenger seat, unless all the back seats are already taken up by other children also under the height limit (or the car has no back seats at all). Until now, under-12s could ride in the front as long as they had a booster seat or other approved retaining device. Taxis will have to follow the same rules, but parents, not taxi drivers, will be held accountable for violations. Fines can also reach €200.
3. Bigger fines for drunk driving. Driving with double the allowed limit of alcohol in the blood will now mean a fine of €1,000 rather than €500. Those caught driving under the influence twice within the same year will get slapped with a €2,000 fine the second time round.
4. Fines for driving after taking drugs. The new law eliminates the need to prove that drug use influenced a person's driving. Now, all it takes is a saliva test: if the result shows the presence of drugs in the body, drivers will be presented with a €1,000 fine regardless of whether the substances affected their driving or not. Prescription drugs are excluded.
5. Alcohol and drug tests for pedestrians. Pedestrians caught violating a traffic regulation – by crossing the road at the wrong place, for instance – will be obliged to submit to a drug and alcohol test. Until now, this was only the case if they were involved in an accident.
6. New speed limits. While the current speed limit on highways and freeways is 120km/h, the reforms contemplate raising this to 130km/h. The new code scheduled for approval in June will determine where and when this speed may be legally reached. Penalties will be the same: starting at €100 for vehicles going up to 150km/h.
7. No minimum speed restrictions for bicycles. This reform aims to solve a problem faced by cyclists in cities. Until now, vehicles could not travel at a speed below 50% of the limit. This was a problem for cyclists in spots such as Madrid's Cuesta de la Vega, a steep slope where riders have a hard time going faster than 25km/h. Freeways remain off-limits to cyclists.
8. Ban on speed camera detectors and jammers. The new legislation expressly prohibits the use of speed camera detectors: drivers caught using them will be liable to fines of €200 and the loss of three points on their license. Speed camera jammers are considered much more serious and entail penalties of €6,000 and 6 points off the permit. Only alert systems offering information about the locations of speed cameras based on databases will be legal. Drivers with GPS devices incorporating speed camera detection capabilities will have to deactivate this option.
9. Foreign residents must register their vehicles. Because foreigners living in Spain were not under the obligation to register their cars here, in practice it was difficult to get them to pay traffic fines or submit to controls. The new regulations will determine the deadlines and conditions for vehicle registration.
10. Road works. It will be considered a serious offense to conduct any kind of road works without first informing the pertinent traffic authorities.
11. Road debris. Dropping items of any kind on the road will carry high penalties because of "the danger it poses to other road users."
12. Inspecting driving schools. Hindering health department or traffic inspectors trying to carry out checks on driving schools and other vehicle-related centers will be considered an offense.
13. Police can fine vehicles without stopping them. Officers will be able to fine vehicles without hailing them down if they are performing duties that prevent them from doing so or giving chase.
14. Drivers to be responsible in accidents involving game animals. Until now, such accidents were only blamed on drivers if they were in violation of the rules of the road, otherwise the state or the owner of the hunting preserve were held accountable. Under the new law, drivers will always be considered to blame unless it can be proven that the animal stormed the road as a result of a big-game hunt held that day or within 12 hours of one having taken place. The state will only be accountable if it fails to provide proper warning signals or to mend broken fences. In practice what this means is that no compensation will be handed out in the event of a driver being killed or seriously injured after a collision with an animal on one of Spain's nearly 25,000 hunting preserves.
15. 50% discount for early fine payment extended to 20 days. This is up from the current 15 days.
16. Environmental restrictions. Vehicles may be barred from entering certain roadways based on environmental criteria. The Environment Ministry will establish the exact rules governing this point.
17. New reasons for immobilizing vehicles. As well as the vehicles of drivers who let children ride without the proper safety devices, authorities will also be able to immobilize those being driven without the proper permit (a C permit in the case of vehicles weighing between 3,500kg and 7,500kg and a D permit in the case of buses).
18. Ban on taking unsafe vehicles to other countries. This article is an application of the United Nations' Global Plan for the Decade of Action for Road Safety 2011-2020, which aims to discourage the importing and exporting of new or used vehicles deemed unsafe.
19. Priority for tow trucks. Tow trucks on their way to assist motorists will have right of way and have to be treated the same way as ambulances.
20. Fewer driving restrictions for cancer patients. Right now cancer sufferers are hardly ever allowed to drive, unless their doctor takes it up with the traffic authority. But improved medical treatment is set to be reflected in the new road rules, which will place fewer restrictions on patients.
So, not a lot for those visiting 'us' but hopefully enough to keep you informed of the wheel of change.
regards
Dave
Bigger fines for those prepared to get behind the wheel when double the limit.
I particularly liked the pedestrians getting breathalysed and drug tested for not crossing in the appropriate place.
I don't like the idea that you can be fined because the police officer was busy doing something else, way too open to abuse.
No 7 was a ridiculous law anyway, so is rightly changed, but No 1, allowing the adult cyclists to ride a cycle without head protection is just as ridiculous.
1. Helmets mandatory in cities for cyclists under 16. After a long row over safety issues, the Popular Party has backtracked on its intention to make helmets mandatory for all riders within municipal limits. In the end, only minors will have to wear them. Not doing so could lead to fines of €200 for parents.
2. Small children may not ride in the front seat. Law enforcement officers will be able to stop and fine drivers carrying children under 1.35 meters in the front passenger seat, unless all the back seats are already taken up by other children also under the height limit (or the car has no back seats at all). Until now, under-12s could ride in the front as long as they had a booster seat or other approved retaining device. Taxis will have to follow the same rules, but parents, not taxi drivers, will be held accountable for violations. Fines can also reach €200.
3. Bigger fines for drunk driving. Driving with double the allowed limit of alcohol in the blood will now mean a fine of €1,000 rather than €500. Those caught driving under the influence twice within the same year will get slapped with a €2,000 fine the second time round.
4. Fines for driving after taking drugs. The new law eliminates the need to prove that drug use influenced a person's driving. Now, all it takes is a saliva test: if the result shows the presence of drugs in the body, drivers will be presented with a €1,000 fine regardless of whether the substances affected their driving or not. Prescription drugs are excluded.
5. Alcohol and drug tests for pedestrians. Pedestrians caught violating a traffic regulation – by crossing the road at the wrong place, for instance – will be obliged to submit to a drug and alcohol test. Until now, this was only the case if they were involved in an accident.
6. New speed limits. While the current speed limit on highways and freeways is 120km/h, the reforms contemplate raising this to 130km/h. The new code scheduled for approval in June will determine where and when this speed may be legally reached. Penalties will be the same: starting at €100 for vehicles going up to 150km/h.
7. No minimum speed restrictions for bicycles. This reform aims to solve a problem faced by cyclists in cities. Until now, vehicles could not travel at a speed below 50% of the limit. This was a problem for cyclists in spots such as Madrid's Cuesta de la Vega, a steep slope where riders have a hard time going faster than 25km/h. Freeways remain off-limits to cyclists.
8. Ban on speed camera detectors and jammers. The new legislation expressly prohibits the use of speed camera detectors: drivers caught using them will be liable to fines of €200 and the loss of three points on their license. Speed camera jammers are considered much more serious and entail penalties of €6,000 and 6 points off the permit. Only alert systems offering information about the locations of speed cameras based on databases will be legal. Drivers with GPS devices incorporating speed camera detection capabilities will have to deactivate this option.
9. Foreign residents must register their vehicles. Because foreigners living in Spain were not under the obligation to register their cars here, in practice it was difficult to get them to pay traffic fines or submit to controls. The new regulations will determine the deadlines and conditions for vehicle registration.
10. Road works. It will be considered a serious offense to conduct any kind of road works without first informing the pertinent traffic authorities.
11. Road debris. Dropping items of any kind on the road will carry high penalties because of "the danger it poses to other road users."
12. Inspecting driving schools. Hindering health department or traffic inspectors trying to carry out checks on driving schools and other vehicle-related centers will be considered an offense.
13. Police can fine vehicles without stopping them. Officers will be able to fine vehicles without hailing them down if they are performing duties that prevent them from doing so or giving chase.
14. Drivers to be responsible in accidents involving game animals. Until now, such accidents were only blamed on drivers if they were in violation of the rules of the road, otherwise the state or the owner of the hunting preserve were held accountable. Under the new law, drivers will always be considered to blame unless it can be proven that the animal stormed the road as a result of a big-game hunt held that day or within 12 hours of one having taken place. The state will only be accountable if it fails to provide proper warning signals or to mend broken fences. In practice what this means is that no compensation will be handed out in the event of a driver being killed or seriously injured after a collision with an animal on one of Spain's nearly 25,000 hunting preserves.
15. 50% discount for early fine payment extended to 20 days. This is up from the current 15 days.
16. Environmental restrictions. Vehicles may be barred from entering certain roadways based on environmental criteria. The Environment Ministry will establish the exact rules governing this point.
17. New reasons for immobilizing vehicles. As well as the vehicles of drivers who let children ride without the proper safety devices, authorities will also be able to immobilize those being driven without the proper permit (a C permit in the case of vehicles weighing between 3,500kg and 7,500kg and a D permit in the case of buses).
18. Ban on taking unsafe vehicles to other countries. This article is an application of the United Nations' Global Plan for the Decade of Action for Road Safety 2011-2020, which aims to discourage the importing and exporting of new or used vehicles deemed unsafe.
19. Priority for tow trucks. Tow trucks on their way to assist motorists will have right of way and have to be treated the same way as ambulances.
20. Fewer driving restrictions for cancer patients. Right now cancer sufferers are hardly ever allowed to drive, unless their doctor takes it up with the traffic authority. But improved medical treatment is set to be reflected in the new road rules, which will place fewer restrictions on patients.
So, not a lot for those visiting 'us' but hopefully enough to keep you informed of the wheel of change.
regards
Dave
Mojo
Member
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- Jan 29, 2015
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And just to partially hijack the thread, across the border in Portugal, the GNR (aka road police) have issued over 3,000 fines to drivers who flout the '2014' roundabout' rules.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news...-for-driving-incorrectly-at-roundabouts/40397
To be expected from a bankrupt EU country that needs revenue generation. And since the Portuguese are the worst drivers globally, what better way than to ambush them all at roundabouts.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news...-for-driving-incorrectly-at-roundabouts/40397
To be expected from a bankrupt EU country that needs revenue generation. And since the Portuguese are the worst drivers globally, what better way than to ambush them all at roundabouts.
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We have the same problems with drivers running around the outside, but even the police do it.
Even more exasperating is the truck drivers do it as well! It is not uncommon for you to be about to exit a roundabout and have an artic run right across your path. I drive pretty defensively any way, so hope to avoid a collision.
regards
Dave
Even more exasperating is the truck drivers do it as well! It is not uncommon for you to be about to exit a roundabout and have an artic run right across your path. I drive pretty defensively any way, so hope to avoid a collision.
regards
Dave
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Can't see any point in having lanes on a roundabout. There is so short a distance between exits that you have to cross a white line perhaps with traffic passing in THEIR lane. If you cross a white line into another lane traffic in the latter lane has priority. If there were no white lines on a roundabout the whole width of the tarmac would be one lane and therefore first come first served would apply as it is against rules to pass another car in front of you in the same lane.
Just so the situation is clear about roundabout protocol in Spain, the Guardia Civil are now issuing diagrams to drivers.............and there is still confusion!!
WTF is difficult about this??
http://spanishnewstoday.com/guardia...panish-roundabout-driving-debate_79534-a.html
Print a copy and bring it with you, if you get pranged by someone who will not 'do it right', roll up said copy and use it on the other driver as a suppository!!
As an asides, further down the page is showing we are on 'Orange alert', we are being absolutely slaughtered at the moment, rare to find anyone (with a brain) out there driving in this.
EDIT 25 hours later and slightly off topic, comms and electricity have been restored in this area of Spain but the rain continues to fall. There was one or two people out driving in the flooded areas but they were dog charity/shelter volunteers. I was doing a lot of nothing watching the TV when I got called out at 08.00 this morning, people could not get to dogs still locked in their kennels and in need of food and water. The floods had turned around a LR Discovery and two Mitsubishi's, so I loaded up with some people and supplies, conscious of not having a snorkel I went for it and we got through, just kept the bow wave at the top of the bonnet.
All sorted, a couple of other call outs but nothing major, the 80 nothing less than a brilliant vehicle, enough good deeds to see me till the end of the year!
regards
Dave
WTF is difficult about this??
http://spanishnewstoday.com/guardia...panish-roundabout-driving-debate_79534-a.html
Print a copy and bring it with you, if you get pranged by someone who will not 'do it right', roll up said copy and use it on the other driver as a suppository!!
As an asides, further down the page is showing we are on 'Orange alert', we are being absolutely slaughtered at the moment, rare to find anyone (with a brain) out there driving in this.
EDIT 25 hours later and slightly off topic, comms and electricity have been restored in this area of Spain but the rain continues to fall. There was one or two people out driving in the flooded areas but they were dog charity/shelter volunteers. I was doing a lot of nothing watching the TV when I got called out at 08.00 this morning, people could not get to dogs still locked in their kennels and in need of food and water. The floods had turned around a LR Discovery and two Mitsubishi's, so I loaded up with some people and supplies, conscious of not having a snorkel I went for it and we got through, just kept the bow wave at the top of the bonnet.
All sorted, a couple of other call outs but nothing major, the 80 nothing less than a brilliant vehicle, enough good deeds to see me till the end of the year!
regards
Dave
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- Feb 2, 2013
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- 16,204
Many years ago i read in the Times of a Gov experiment . In an area known to be an accident black spot they removed all signs , road markings , traffic lights etc in maybe a mile radius .
Memory is vague and i don't know how long the experiment lasted but i think as a result the place went from being (London's?) number one hotspot for traffic accidents to 2 incidents of parking scrapes .
I bet the place was swamped with signs as soon as they realized that common sense had broken the cash generator .
Memory is vague and i don't know how long the experiment lasted but i think as a result the place went from being (London's?) number one hotspot for traffic accidents to 2 incidents of parking scrapes .
I bet the place was swamped with signs as soon as they realized that common sense had broken the cash generator .
I think if you took away a lot of the road signs it would be OK here. Many roads have signs which make no sense anyway, or they are placed in such ambiguous places you cannot even see them. So if there are no apparent signs you drive with some extra care, if a set of crossroads have no signs to say who has priority everyone tends to be that little extra careful, and it works.
Despite the IMO poor quality of the majority of drivers in Spain, I will say that they are pretty disciplined when it comes to road works and hazards such as cyclists and if the road is undergoing repairs. Impending road works are denoted by the centre line being painted yellow a couple of weeks prior to the actual start. That idea alone is IMO brilliant, if you need to use that road then you get the chance explore other routes.
There are no such thing as temporary traffic lights in this area, there will be guys with STOP/GO boards and tend to work pretty well. There may be a lane closure for say a mile? So that will need probably 50 cones if that? The drivers will not start moving into the closed lane, between the gaps in the cones, and there are no speed cameras to make sure you are being good. Odd that when traversing these areas you feel that as you are being treated with common sense and you sort of repay it by not abusing that trust and taking liberties.......if you know what I mean?
The roundabouts just seem to confuse many, even indicating left as if going around the roundabout, but in reality the driver is going straight across, he/she is simply indicating that to go straight across they need to go around a section of roundabout, it is either no indicator or the wrong one, drives me nuts!
regards
Dave
Despite the IMO poor quality of the majority of drivers in Spain, I will say that they are pretty disciplined when it comes to road works and hazards such as cyclists and if the road is undergoing repairs. Impending road works are denoted by the centre line being painted yellow a couple of weeks prior to the actual start. That idea alone is IMO brilliant, if you need to use that road then you get the chance explore other routes.
There are no such thing as temporary traffic lights in this area, there will be guys with STOP/GO boards and tend to work pretty well. There may be a lane closure for say a mile? So that will need probably 50 cones if that? The drivers will not start moving into the closed lane, between the gaps in the cones, and there are no speed cameras to make sure you are being good. Odd that when traversing these areas you feel that as you are being treated with common sense and you sort of repay it by not abusing that trust and taking liberties.......if you know what I mean?
The roundabouts just seem to confuse many, even indicating left as if going around the roundabout, but in reality the driver is going straight across, he/she is simply indicating that to go straight across they need to go around a section of roundabout, it is either no indicator or the wrong one, drives me nuts!
regards
Dave
This happens a lot round here. Lynn and I only spoke about it this morning. I am wondering if it is an age thing. Perhaps older motorists were taught this way before a change to the current system? Or maybe there was no set way to do things back then.
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Your very close it is the older generation, the driving instructors are STLL teaching the new drivers the wrong way, I guess you could argue the instructors are not youngsters?
The learner cars often have 4 students and one instructor, this is so he can maximise his profits. Take out four and give a couple of hours tuition, he/she has doubled their money.
I think I have mentioned this before, and it may sound rather condescending but, I make sure at each roundabout I 'do it right'. More often than not I can tell if it a young or old driver is in front. Older do not use indicators, youngsters use indicators but incorrectly. If there is a car in front with an 'L' plate and a younger driver you seen by the poor indication that they are still being taught wrong. This will take years and years to sort out.
regards
Dave
Is that a bit of Latin thrown in there Rich, just to appease the Spanish?
Interesting topic, thanks Dave and other contributors
The yellow road markings at roadworks are a good idea, especially if they indicate diversion or deviate from the existing white lines. They are also used here.
Bloody thing!! Corrects what's right and leaves what's wrong!!!
I've revisited. I usually get to those before too long anyway.
I've revisited. I usually get to those before too long anyway.
At this time of year we always see an influx of Motorhomes to the local beaches. They often stay for the whole of January and most of February however, this year there are a lot more campers than usual, and as space starts to get limited the campers do not wish to leave where they are and lose 'their' spot. The town hall provides bins and chemical toilets however, some do not wish to use them, so they use the ones fitted in their mobile homes. The result is that instead of emptying the toilet waste in one of the approved dump sites or taking it to local camp sites who have the waste facilities, the lazy bastards choose other alternatives.
The first is emptying the containers into surrounding bushes, this attracts dogs being walked by local residents, many of the dogs see the waste as 'perfume', the return home and subsequent bathing of the dog has left many residents understandingly up in arms, or should that be 'up to their arms'?
Some are choosing to empty the waste directly into the sea, and this area has two dive schools, the regulars are hardly happy whilst standing in the shallows putting on a set when a 'Richard' goes floating past, so more anger and resentment has understandingly been voiced to the local Gaurdia Civil.
The selfish actions of a few has now affected the many, the beaches have now been closed to camping vehicles, signs have been erected with warning notices of fines for ignoring the ruling. The fine is set at 1,000.00 euros, no debate, no time to pay, if you cannot pay there and then (police cars have card readers fitted) and you have no cash, then your motorhome will be on the back of a 'Grua' and towed away.
It is not uncommon for the locals (myself included), who would park down on the beach, many would stay overnight having had a drink, and as per correct use of places like this we left only our tyre marks, witness our New Years Day, barbequing and watching a Dolphin display, will we get to see stay on the beach again, who knows?
regards
Dave
The first is emptying the containers into surrounding bushes, this attracts dogs being walked by local residents, many of the dogs see the waste as 'perfume', the return home and subsequent bathing of the dog has left many residents understandingly up in arms, or should that be 'up to their arms'?
Some are choosing to empty the waste directly into the sea, and this area has two dive schools, the regulars are hardly happy whilst standing in the shallows putting on a set when a 'Richard' goes floating past, so more anger and resentment has understandingly been voiced to the local Gaurdia Civil.
The selfish actions of a few has now affected the many, the beaches have now been closed to camping vehicles, signs have been erected with warning notices of fines for ignoring the ruling. The fine is set at 1,000.00 euros, no debate, no time to pay, if you cannot pay there and then (police cars have card readers fitted) and you have no cash, then your motorhome will be on the back of a 'Grua' and towed away.
It is not uncommon for the locals (myself included), who would park down on the beach, many would stay overnight having had a drink, and as per correct use of places like this we left only our tyre marks, witness our New Years Day, barbequing and watching a Dolphin display, will we get to see stay on the beach again, who knows?
regards
Dave
Mojo
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There is a similar situation at a beach site in the Algarve - Praia do Barranco. Infested by camper van travellers from all over Europe, with zero facilities. And I mean zero. Not even a shack. Beach and countryside littered with refuse. Makes the Ghanges River look like a sparkling spring. No objection to camper vans or camping, but 30 people and as many dogs every day=dumpville. Occasionally the local GNR pay a visit, but as its remote, there are no local objections.
There are no less than three camp sites and one petrol garage with disposal facilities, so no excuses here what so ever. This is what rocks the boats of the locals, it is plain laziness, and a complete and utter contemptuous attitude. The majority are Germans and French however a number of 'GB' plates feature in this selfish display of 'how to be an arse' attitude.
regards
Dave
regards
Dave
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- Mar 1, 2010
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- 5,515
It beats me why there are so many problems in the world. re;- littering just put the fine/price up until it stops. People driving on the phone ought to have their phone crushed. The hedges adjoining footpaths around here are littered with full dog waste bags hanging up. Pathetic. People moan but nothing gets done. Take their dogs off them.
