Complete and instant brake failure !

[StarCruiser]

You're right TP, the front diff is on rubbers isn't it?

 

[Shayne]

The truck has been in daily use for 2 or 3 weeks since the welder was last on it so i'm only concerned about the brakes myself .

 

[Beau]

Never seen this before, but the fact it looks similar on both sides does say it has to do with just more than a random failure occurring. When you got out and had a look were those lines hot?

Glad you're ok though. With failures like this, things could have been a lot worse

 

[Shayne]

You got that right Beau i'm just glad it didn't happen when Helen was driving it , where it happened it could have been far more serious anyway so i am counting my blessings

 

[clivehorridge]

.

That might be nearly almost a compliment Clive , perhaps you should see a doctor

It's not rubbing though there is a solid line from caliper to steering arm and the stainless runs from the arm to the chassis , i couldn't make it touch anything else even if i used a crowbar for leverage .

Time to take another pill then Shayne

As for some of the other constructive comments, I've a feeling even the front springs on Shayne's truck won't conduct, aren't you using neoprene spacers at the top of the springs on the front Shayne?

I was thinking a disconnected chassis earth braid might be encouraging starter current through the braids, but dismissed it straight away because the engine has no direct electrical connection to the axle.

But on second thoughts it does, at the wheels through the bearings and the driveshafts, gearbox, then engine, or vice versa. It's all metal to metal and grease conducts pretty well.

Worth checking your engine earths Shayne, it's easy to leave it/them off when doing a lot of spannering, as you have been lately.

All theory of course unless you run some controlled tests, but the damage is intense heat, the like you'd get from a starter in use, or as Rich suggested, the pull of a welder passing along a mere SS braid, but again, for it to be the welding, you'd have to have been earthing at the axle or the engine, no?

That bit doesn't make sense to me, yet.

 

[Shayne]

Maybe i did it when i fitted the winch with the isolator in the the negative line . There was a fair bit of smoke then and nothing burnt as far as i could see but obviously i wouldn't have looked at the brakes while working on the winch ?

 

[Beau]

That's looking like the most likely outcome....That, or you have some local enemies about

 

[froggy Steve]

Well done team Landcruiser club Good bit of detective work there

 

[StarCruiser]

Still not got the full jigsaw together here. It's going to be high current and as Clive says, startup could do it but by far the closest is your description of having the isolator in the -ve. Where exactly did you insert this in the negative Shayne and at what point did you let the smoke out? Just trying to understand the circuit.

Hang on, with no negative to the winch (isolated), you had winch bolted to chassis, chassis isolated from body by rubbers, -ve current goes winch, chassis, brake lines (woof ) drive line, gearbox, engine, engine Earth strap, battery negative.

 

[frank rabbets]

It's got to be fire to cook the inner rubber lining that failed and for both sides to go looks like current to me.

 

[Shayne]

I'm reasonably confident we can rule out vandalism my wonderful memory has allowed me to test leaving hundreds of pounds worth of stuff in the back lane overnight several times but nothing has ever gone missing , even if she takes it to work its locked in and security staff can see it on cam .

End to end I ran a cable from the negative on one side of the winch to an isolator on the other , then from isolator to the battery without really thinking about it because i always disconnect the negative post on the battery first , until smoke made me think about it

Googled it and yes fried brake lines is a fairly common occurrence when your winch ground fails .

 

[Shayne]

And Roughtrax declined payment for the new brake line kit that was already on its way to me saying they appreciate my honesty , I'm sure the fact that i may as well have shares in the company so much do i invest had nothing to do with it nor the admission that they do keep an eye on the forum from time to time

Can't fault em though the philosophy was if your happy we are happy so lets get you back on the road and we have all learned something .

So thank you Roughtrax

 

[frank rabbets]

I would think they were SLIGHTLY relieved Shayne. Glad you got to the bottom of it. I had a steel throttle rod MELT on my (landrover) when the earth strap dropped off the engine.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

I would think they were SLIGHTLY relieved Shayne. Glad you got to the bottom of it. I had a steel throttle rod MELT on my (landrover) when the earth strap dropped off the engine.

And the brake line got a bit warm on my 66 MGB when I was cranking it over without the engine earth strap connected ( decades ago I may add).

 

[uHu]

This thread is really an asset to the forum. It's all about facts, honesty, lucky outcome of a potentially dangerous situation, a supportive vendor, and very good teamwork. And the nice tone of the postings all the way through. It's been a joy to follow this from the sideline.
I hope it all works out well when the new brake lines arrive.

 

[Gary820]

Bloody hell Shayne just seen this! Lucky you stopped and good that you've found the cause.

Excellent service from Roughtrax too

 

[Shayne]

Absolutely Gary its easy to imagine at least 4 cars going to the knackers yard as the most minor consequence had luck not been on my side , it was a mid town T junction and i was joining one of those very busy roads that parked cars have turned into a single track race for the gap for cars going in either direction .

I should thank Roughtrax for the handbrake shoes i bought along with my other brake bits a year ago as well i guess

 

[StarCruiser]

It's also lucky you didn't run the winch for much longer than you did. Had the brake hoses failed at that point the brake fluid could have caught fire and then who knows what.

Doesn't bare thinking about (Helen at the wheel would have potentially been far worse if course).

If I were you I'd do the lottery with the good luck you've had with this.

So glad nobody got hurt.

 

[chadr]

Lucky escape there Shayne...where was Chas when you needed him, eh?

Sorry, couldn't resist that one! Glad you seem to have got to the bottom of the issue - well done to the Club's diagnostic (or should that be detective) team.

 

[Towpack]

One unforeseen advantage of OEM rubber brake lines you could say, but then, who really thinks about earthing issues when fitting new flexi brake hoses?! As said, a VERY lucky escape