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Help?! 80 series - engine not switching off... randoms

Those starters are mighty things. I doubt whether there will be much wrong with it apart from contacts unless a lot of mud has got in there. Don't loose the little ball bearing up inside the plunger lol. I would have thought to rebuild rather than risk on a pattern part.
 
It’s an easy job with the correct parts Dave. Remove the starter to the bench, remove the three screws on the back cover of the solenoid. Clean, change parts then reassemble. You can also have a look in the motor itself and see what condition it’s in and give it a clean if you wish. One essential though,
USE LOW STRENGTH STUDLOCK ON THE THREE SCREWS ON THE BACK OF THE SOLENOID. Otherwise the screws fall out, the cover falls off and the new plunger you’ve just fitted shirts the contacts and sets fire to anything around it.

Ask me how I know. :scared-eek: :angry-extinguishfl:

I think the upgrade was two extended contacts, it was a long time ago.
 
Thanks SC and Frank, appreciate your help. Good tip on the studlock BTW!!!!
 
I bought a 6mm thick piece of copper plate and cut my own contacts out with as much surface area as would fit in the housing. KNIGHTMARE cutting and filing copper. Don't know how to do it by hand easily. Thread locked the 3 screws in 2 years ago just in case.
 
As an aside, looking at the solenoid rebuild prices, I wonder whether I would be better simply buying another (new) starter motor? Anyone with experience of aftermarket starters for the 4.2 24v?
I used the Roughtrax not OEM unit, too early to say if it was a good choice, it was a good price though I also bought the rebuild components for the old unit from Roughtrax to have a belt and braces situation, looks easy enough to rebuild. ( have I spoke too soon)
 
I used the Roughtrax not OEM unit, too early to say if it was a good choice, it was a good price though I also bought the rebuild components for the old unit from Roughtrax to have a belt and braces situation, looks easy enough to rebuild. ( have I spoke too soon)
It’s very straightforward Bill, JUST DON’T OMIT THE STUDLOCK…
 
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Useful little video on injector solenoid if you want to see what it does :)

 
Thanks, please clarify the “ studlock” I don’t know what this is, thanks again, Billy
Studloc is loctite. A thread locking adhesive.
Something like this. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/282746876492

I’ve got Loctite bottles that are 20 years past date that still work fine so don’t be put off by that.
There’s all sorts of types, some you need to heat to enable disassembly, low strength is fine for this application just to stop the screws rattling loose.
 
Studloc is loctite. A thread locking adhesive.
Something like this. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/282746876492

I’ve got Loctite bottles that are 20 years past date that still work fine so don’t be put off by that.
There’s all sorts of types, some you need to heat to enable disassembly, low strength is fine for this application just to stop the screws rattling loose.
Thanks, good advice, I appreciate your reply, Billy
 
Welllll... an update... got around to stripping out the starter and rebuilding over the weekend - as discussed, the rebuild process was really easy. The old contacts were burnt to hell, so obviously the problem. New kit fitted and rebuilt (inc studlock!) and all good so far - in fact the starter fires up better than before. Thanks all for the advice. :)
 
Excellent! :thumbup:
Did you use the standard contacts or the extended ones Dave?
 
Cheers SC. I used stock ones in the end - tried Robson and Francis - not sure who I was speaking with (wasn't Mike), but they seemed unsure about it, so I just went with the kit from Roughtrax.
 
Cheers SC. I used stock ones in the end - tried Robson and Francis - not sure who I was speaking with (wasn't Mike), but they seemed unsure about it, so I just went with the kit from Roughtrax.
Best to speak to Mike as he has sourced them for me before. It may have been Devon you spoke to.
 
So this happened to me today too. HDJ80 with 217k.

Went to fill up the washer reservoir at Halfords, spilt a little bit around as you do. (mentioning this as ih8mud user had issue with wiring under the reservoir causing starter cutout... No Start on a HDJ81, I have traced it down to a pretty small area. - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club])

Started the truck in the car-park, sounded a bit rattly but nothing to make me stop and look, as the engine was otherwise cold having only done a few miles. Drove the returning two miles home, went to kill the ignition and it would immediately try to crank and would start the truck when the key allowed it. Flicked it on / off about 10 times to see if this would 'unstick' - it did not.

Starter was smoking a little at this point, probably was 'starting' for about 5 mins by now. I had left the the engine running in the hope that this took the strain off the starter. I ended up pulling both -ve on the batteries, having discovered that there is no fuse that could be pulled instead. Truck continued to run without both -ves but totally died when the ignition was shut off this time, and when I hooked it all back up the problem went away i.e. the starter didn't immediately start trying to crank, and normal service resumed. I can't repeat the problem to troubleshoot it so far.

My thoughts
- if the starter solenoid had 'welded' itself to the on position, as I have read about, then reattaching the batteries would have resumed the starter trying to turn the engine over... no?
- if washer fluid spill has somehow upset the 12/24v switchover relay then that still wouldn't be sending a 'start' signal to the starter
- the starter relay could have been stuck sending 12v through
- I suppose the barrel wiring may be at play
- the spilling of washer fluid around this area is probably coincidence

I've read a bit on this tonight and have ordered the RoughTrax rebuild kit Genuine Toyota Starter Solenoid Repair Kit - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club]

If the solenoid was stuck 'on' then killing the electromagnet by pulling the battery would not have unstuck it as the electromagnet would have otherwise been off already if this was the issue. And so reconnecting it would immediately make it 'on' again, which did not happen. It feels like removing the electric would have only made a difference to the state of the starter relay. Wisdom of the forum please!

This is what the inside of the starter solenoid looked like. Worn but not terribly so?

IMG-20210904-WA0003.jpg
IMG-20210904-WA0005.jpg


I will replace the starter relay too, but am struggling to source one - any ideas? 28300-17020
2021-09-04 19.40.27.jpg
 
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Also I'd like to install a breaker inline off the 12/24 switchover to the starter so if this happens again I can use it to control the starter, as had this happened away from home I would have been in more trouble. Any recommendation?
 
Well I can't see how it could be the relay, I'm clearly the first person to open this in at least 24 years and it looks new.
2021-09-04 21.48.16.jpg
 
Those contacts look like they have been welded together. The plunger contact gets cone shaped so wedges itself into the other 2 contacts. Just like my problem. New contacts and not a problem since. With the later contacts one is a different shape. Looks like you have the original old type ones.
 
This is what you need :-


I cut a hole in my bulkhead so that the key is inside cabin and easy to get to. The starter high amp cable is spliced and the switch installed. This way I can cut the power to a seized starter then stop the engine by removing the switch. It is also a very good anti theft device as I remove the key after paring the car.

It's a DURITE 0-605-50. Took me 4 hours to install including a long length of high amp wire and a blowtorch to solder the ends to the switch contacts. Make sure there is a flood of solder as a week joint will melt.
 

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