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Indicators and hazard fuse blowing, then won't start: battery?

ManOfTheWest

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A 15A fuse blew recently in my 2004 120-series, the one for indicators and hazards. I replaced it, and took the 120 to my local independent, who checked for shorts but couldn't find anything obvious. We agreed to wait until it happened again and that I would make a note of which was indicating when it happened.

Yesterday I was on my way to pick up the kids when the fuse blew as I indicated left. I left it like that until I got to the school. A bunch of lights came up on the dash: ABS, VSC, battery, etc.

Then, when I tried to start it after picking up the child, there was nothing. The lights on the dash came on, but no cranking. I replaced the fuse. Nothing. Pulled driver's side battery, took it home in different car, charged overnight using the Optimate, looked fine. Put it back today, wouldn't crank. I have now removed and am charging both batteries. One is almost certainly original fitment (!), and that is a GS Yuasa 85D26P-MF, while the other is a Halfords job that is too long for the battery tray (which is for batteries around 270mm long).

I now recall that twice over the past couple of months the 120 has needed charging after being sat for a couple of days. So, could it be weak batteries that are causing the short? Both look old and tatty, and maybe they are creating electrical problems. Having read this recent thread, I'm thinking of starting by replacing both with Yuasa equivalents, namely this on the driver's side:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/o/ASIN/B00KNQU1VE
and this on the passenger's side:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/o/ASIN/B00KNQTOAI

The specs on these two aren't huge, but I'm not a particularly demanding user, and I do rate Yuasa. And they will fit properly in the battery trays.

EDIT: The YBX5096 would also fit in the tray, and has a bit more power, but there doesn't appear to be a version with terminals the other way round. No big deal, I guess.

Any comments or suggestions?

Dan
 
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Before you splash out, these should fit (listed on Yuasa's own site for the 120), are the top spec in Yuasa and a serious bargain.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-YUA...596924&hash=item2ce3f7d704:g:w2cAAOSwICRctKHc
It's certainly a good price, thank you for finding that. The length, however, is different - 303mm I think. Perhaps one can get longer trays?

EDIT: I checked my existing Halfords battery, and that is no more than 300mm in length, but it still does overflow the battery tray. I wouldn't mind, but since we're torqueing these batteries down with the metal battery strap/bar, if the battery is not flush to the tray (i.e. if it is propped up on the lip at one end) then it's going to put pressure on the casing.
 
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Yes, I looked at that offer too Juddian, and came to the same conclusion of ManOfTheWest after checking sizes. Bugger !!
 
Thats the ones I am intending to order tomorrow, so good to know someone else using Trevor.
 
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EDIT: The YBX5096 would also fit in the tray, and has a bit more power, but there doesn't appear to be a version with terminals the other way round.
Afternoon! I have two more questions.
1) I measured this morning and the battery trays are only around 270mm long, so now thinking about the YBX5096 to give a bit more power. It only has "layout 0" for this battery, not "layout 1" with the positive and negative reversed, but presumably I would be able to just turn the battery around on the tray?
2) Alternatively there is the YBX7031, which is "layout 1" but would using a stop-start battery like this be a problem in a conventional vehicle like the 120?

Thanks
Dan
 
Hey Trevor, did you have any trouble fitting varta g7 and g8 on your motor, came to check dimensions before ordering today and they come up a bit long. There is enough room - just, but battery trays (plastic) would cause a problem. How did you get the batteries to fit in yours ? Cheers
 
ManOfTheWest, if you turn the 'wrong batteries' the standard leads will not reach, they have to be handed with the posts at opposed ends. Two of any standard batteries will have posts at the same ends if that makes sense.
 
Although the Vartas are slightly longer, they drop in just fine and of course are clamped in place. The battery post positions are spot on too. I use them in my 120's and 8o series with no issues at all.
 
Thanks Trevor, it is the trays that concern me most as they are plastic and have upturned edges all round to contain any battery spills as you know.
As the vartas are longer they don't fit within the upturned edges long ways, so the batteries would not sit flat within the confines of the trays and overhang at a slight angle thereby not fully supporting that battery base. I am now looking at retro fit trays as fitted to specials/ project vehicles. What did you do as regards your own trays when fitting? I like the spec of these and am keen to use if poss. Thanks.
 
I never bothered changing the trays, given these are sealed batteries I've never had one leak in multiple vehicles over 12 years.

You could possibly make a tray out of aluminium or something if you feel the need.
 
That's good to know Trevor, i was looking at mine yesterday trying to work out if those 306mm long batteries (i prefer Yuasa but same dimensions as the Vartas) would go in, looked a snug fit but if you've got them into a 120 there's no reason they won't fit mine.
I would probably cut new trays out of aluminium or preferably stainless steel so the batteries are supported well, but if you've had no problems that might not be necessary.
Never know, might not need them for many years as Mr T's replacement set in place are only 4 years old and the engine kicks over well enough, but i like to have things like this pencilled in already so just a case of finding the best deal when they do fail.
Incidentally i understand Mr T's replacements are not full OE spec regarding CCA or AH, i seem to recall them labelled made in Czech republic or somewhere else in eastern europe, does anyone know what spec OE were please?

The reason i don't want another Varta, i put a new one on my now 24 year old Merc, and left it on trickle charge during the worst of winter a couple of years ago, unbeknown to me the IMHO overrated CTEC smart charger developed a fault and less than 2 months going flat the battery would no longer accept any charge.
Don't know if a Yuasa would fail so easily, maybe it would, but a battery costing well over £80 scrapped in under a year i wasn't exactly happy about.
 
Ridiculous I know, but worth checking Toyota for 120 twin batteries. I can't remember exactly what I paid last year but it was around £160 for the two.
 
ManOfTheWest, if you turn the 'wrong batteries' the standard leads will not reach.
I've ordered a YBX5096 and will see if the leads will reach if I install it on the passenger side, but turned around. If they don't reach, I will use it on the driver side and order something else for the passenger side. Pictures as and when I get it.
 
Looking at it again you may just get away with that on drivers side. There is a bit of leeway on the connecting + lead from one to the other, it is the earth that comes up short possibly, could always replace with slightly longer.
Shouldn't be a problem with passenger side as posts look right orientation. I have decided to go with a pair of varta as per Trevor. I need to confirm with supplier tomorrow as direct price is more than through eBay ??
 
Batteries arrived this a.m. on up and running. Thanks for all of your suggestions. Trevor you were spot on with the Varta, a nice fit witha little room to spare, leads line up exactly as you said. Well pleased with spec. 95ah and 830cca. Only trouble is, because I had no batteries on radio no workee and no code. Off topic I know, now what
Mods, feel free to move to appropriate section as you think fit. Sorry for hijack chaps.
 
Looking at it again you may just get away with that on drivers side. There is a bit of leeway on the connecting + lead from one to the other, it is the earth that comes up short possibly, could always replace with slightly longer. Shouldn't be a problem with passenger side as posts look right orientation.
Passenger side is indeed fine (see below) and driver's side is not bad either, but I'm having problems with the negative terminal on the driver's side. It is a two-part assembly, and it has been set up with a bend in the assembly. I would like the bend to go the other way, but I cannot get the nut in the middle of the assembly to loosen. There is no nut or bolt head on the other side of the assembly to work against. The whole assembly is clamped to the end of the negative cable, of course, so I can't take it away to put in a vice and apply some leverage. I clearly don't have the hand strength to hold it while I get the nut off. I've tried quantities of Plus Gas and some heat, but it won't budge. This is it. Any ideas?

20200123_143914-25%.jpg


This is how it looks on the driver's side - note that nasty bend in the negative cable.

20200123_145713-25%.jpg


And this is with it fitted on the passenger side. Easy.
20200123_142424-25%.jpg
 
Hi. When I fitted new batteries to my Collie I had the same problem. I ended up fitting the clamp to the battery terminal and tightened it up. Then I got a large pair of adjustable spanners and braced the clamp with them whilst undoing the nut with a ratchet and socket. When I put it back on I fitted a spring washer underneath the cable so I didn't have to tighten it up so much. Works fine but still check its tight every oil change.
 
Also looking at your picture of the clamp fitted, my clamp is on the other way up so would sort your problem without doing anything
 
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