Noise after new clutch fit....

[Chris]

I'd go one step at a time and pull it off looking as you go. Could be something really simple that's out of kilter and reinstalling it might work the magic. If I'm free, I'd be happy to come up and cast another pair of eyes over it. I've done more than my fair share of 80 gearbox / clutch splits.

 

[Gary820]

If you can turn the engine over by hand listen if anything is catching in the bell housing area too.

 

[Towpack]

The noise goes when the clutch is disengaged and the input shaft stops. Parshall pressure does nothing. Increasing the engine speed makes it much less and driving appears and sounds normal. Looking at the clutch plates I don’t think the friction plate would fit the wrong way round and the pressure plate only fits one way on the locating dowels. Everything torqued up as per FSM but, the fact that it was OK at first could point to something coming loose maybe?

 

[Gary820]

Something coming loose is possible, I assume the spigot shaft bearing is on the crank or flywheel? Could that have been dislodged hence the hard to re fit?
(Again haven't seen a clutch on one of these)

I've seen people put friction plates in backwards, release bearings fitted incorrectly too.

If driving ok and not getting louder etc I wouldn't jump straight into buying a box personally.

With the rubber boot off get the endoscope in there if poss to borrow it and have a look for evidence of contact issues.

 

[Towpack]

The spigot bearing was a very snug fit and required tapping in with a drift so I can’t see it becoming dislodged. I’ll try and get underneath it with the engine running this week to see and hear or maybe even feel where the noise is coming from. The endoscope is good idea so I’ll try and borrow it. It’s booked in for the MOT next Monday too so Im hoping it can make that.

Chris, thanks for the offer and I’ll bear it in mind. It’s currently still driveable and if it stays that way I could even bring it over or meet somewhere but I’ll be keeping a close eye on it for signs of it worsening.

 

[Dave2000]

Even if the input shaft was damaged, it does not explain the low bite point of the clutch. If bite point was good and then changed then a clutch issue, if low from the get go again a clutch issue.

Perhaps part of the clutch failed and is fouling?

This may or may not have damaged the gearbox?

Silly question, did you remove the stud that holds the starter? That is a PITA and may have caused you to struggle getting the box home?

Did you changed the slave cylinder TP, I have seen these with incorrect pushrod length, this causes the thrust bearing to become dislodged?

Having listened to the noise again it does sound very much like a primary shaft bearing noise, but that is a large bearing and would have taken a lot if stick, spigot bearing dislodged may have allowed the shaft to run out but, again doed not explain low clutch bite point from first driving it.

I feel your pain, gearbox out again

That's all I can think of in the middle of the night with 'Wrath of God' like high winds waking me up!

Regards

Dave

 

[Towpack]

I put the now low bite point down to the new clutch Dave compared to the old one which was worn out and barely touching the rivets in a few places. Is lowering of the bite point not normal with a new clutch?
We left the starter stud on but can’t say for sure if that was causing the alignment issue.
We left the old slave cylinder in. I’ve read of the pushrod not being long enough when a non OME clutch is fitted but this certainly wasn’t the case hear as it had to be pushed right back in to get it to fit behind the clutch arm so, if anything, it’s exerting a slight force on the arm without any pedal pressure.

 

[Chris]

Well next time take the starter stud out TP. Saves you a world of pain. I wish I had a ramp at my unit I have to say. I have a spare box that I'd love to put in (from a 100 series) I know Andy very kindly hires his out, but there's nothing quite like being next to your own tools and stuff.

I always split the transfer box off. I can do it in 30 mins and it makes moving the box and clutch so much easier.

When I had that crap Milner clutch fitted by a local garage, then had the whole thing out, in one, in 90 minutes. I couldn't believe it but there it was on the ground when I pulled up.

It just sounds like something isn't squared up quite right to me. These boxes are super solid and you'd have to drop it off a bridge to damage it, surely.

 

[Dave2000]

The bite pount is around mid way on mine, the slave cylinder the same as a couple of 80's I have done, biting at the top is a clear indicator of wear as you found.

Well next time take the starter stud out TP. Saves you a world of pain.

So tight! With the stud removed you get a straight approach and can rotate the box into place, if not you may put too much load on the input shaft and clutch assembly.

Pressure on the clutch arm should be minimal, I would undo the two bolts holding the slave in place, before the inevitable strip down, and this will allow you to measure just how much movement the arm takes to get the bolts bsck in.

This so sounds like a spigot damaged allowing the primary shaft bearing to becomed skewed.

Fingers crossed for you here TP

Regards

Dave

 

[Chris]

I'd not thought of that but getting the angle of dangle wrong when mating the two could certainly have smacked the pilot bearing. You do need them to go together nice and smooth. When we've had a tussle doing one of these we've found it best to back off completely and go again. Letting the back of the engine drop slightly too gives much more clearance around the bell housing. Watch the fan on the rad shroud but you can drop it quite some way if you're careful.

 

[StarCruiser]

Sounds awful. I feel for you TP. Hope I’m wrong but it sounds deeper inside than the bellhousing.

 

[frank rabbets]

Terrible luck TP. I have sleepless nights when that sort of thing happens to me. I doubt you've damaged the box unless it was about to fall apart anyway. I assume though that you got the mating surfaces of engine/box together by hand without pulling them together with the bolts. It sounds like a loose clutch assy to me!! If that sort of noise IS inside the box you'll have loads of metal swarf in the bottom of the box so a quick drain of the oil will probo put your mind at rest.

Was it a Toyota clutch?

 

[clivehorridge]

I’m feeling your pain and disappointment too TP.

My only thought may be a crushed spirit bearing. IIRC this is a fine needle roller bearing and the bearing case is hard and brittle. If the spigot shaft wasn’t aligned properly on entry to the bearing, the tip of the shaft could have crushed the casing and dislodged the needles.

Trouble is, it would give audible symptoms in the reverse of what you’re getting, meaning noisy with the clutch disengaged when the spigot shaft is rotating in the bearing, and silent when engaged, with no differential movement between shaft and crank/flywheel.

Your vid doesn’t sound like that at all.

No help at all really, but it’s the only thing I can think of that relates to your difficulty in aligning the spigot shaft.

I’ve had new thrust bearings seize in the past, but the sound that makes is different again.

If it’s damaged the g/box, I have no comment other than commiserations.

What a bugger....

 

[IRLGW]

Did you use the install the clutch plate by using a centralised installation tool

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Self-Adj...618071&hash=item4b29044ac4:g:FRUAAOSwGzhaB6a0

or did you use the mounting bolts to the flywheel for pulling it in? Sometimes self-adjusting clutches can get damaged on the release bearing if you use the external bolts to mount the plate and the springs get caught on the release bearing.

Unfortunately I think the Gearbox will have to come off. I don't think the input shaft will have been damaged as its likely the bell housing would crack before hand if it was being forced on by the bolts. I would say its a clutch component.

If you haven't already got one, get a good impact wrench and you should be able to remove the box in about 90min.

 

[Richard Turner]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/201460928598

Get one of these and find out whether the noise is in the gearbox or bellhousing. Best tool I ever bought. Incredibly accurate. Saves so much time.

If the noise is in the gearbox drop the oil and see if you get metal coming out.

Good luck, hopefully the noise is from the bellhousing, but if it is from the gearbox it's not the end of the world.

Me and my dad fixed an MR2 gearbox a couple of months back, we thought it was toast but Dad had an old puller from a BSA motorbike that we used and replaced the smashed synchros and it's good as new now. Just used the toyota repair manual and got the parts from Amayama.

 

[IRLGW]

Will we have to refer to him as 'Dr Towpack' ?

 

[Richard Turner]

Doctor of vehicles

 

[IRLGW]

I used to like hearing rattles in my defender- it meant it was still working..

 

[Richard Turner]

The howling of my roof rack drowns out all other noise - even the radio!

 

[Iwan]

I've been thinking about this today whilst working.

There's a snap ring that goes around the outside of the input shaft bearing to prevent the possible push on the input. So that would prevent what I was talking about last night.

I have a feeling that the thrust bearing clips have come off the clutch fork and is rotating hence the sound goes away when pressure is applied on the clutch pedal because you say the gearbox is working fine. To check with the engine running and grab hold of the clutch fork to see if you can feel the noise.

A hunch so a look through the slot that the clutch fork comes out.. I checked mine after struggling to fit the engine and box by myself. I used my mobile phone with the torch on and videoed it.. I could see that the thrust bearing was clipped on ok! Another way to check.

Interested in getting to the bottom of this!