OK dumb question or not # 2 Black smoke

[zooey]

I am hyper sensitive to any change of anything. Noticed a puff of black smoke on start only a while ago.

so spent hours reading. Live in a doubtful area for quality of fuel. First consideration. Waited until just about empty...and put in a "quality additive".

My reading says black smoke could have a few simple causes. Some less disastrous than others.

One outstanding is the lack of air into the turbo mix. So idiot me I changed the air filter; probably should have been more attentive....then read that changing the air filter is actually counter-productive.

That said. Fuel additive that is designed to clean injectors etc. (the usual spiel)...plus filter change.

Took it for a run and the turbo is kicking in more than my previous experience at high speeds. And the smoke puff (which my reading says is carbon)...is more noticeable at start only.

So idiot question? Could this be that the fuel additive is actually cleaning the carbon deposits and that is what I see?

Second speculation? Noticed a slight crack in the exhaust leading to the muffler....can that influence? (not talking about a hole but a crack....e.g. pre-hole)

Third thing...opinion on changing air filters? as per this discussion here?

http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/air-filter-observations.775497/

 

[zooey]

Everything that I read about diesel engines in general tells me that smoke signals mean absolutely everything.

Really interested in opinions regarding air filter switches. I am going to re-install the air filter I replaced and take it for a run....thing is the turbo kick-in light at highway speeds was showing it kicking in way more often than pre-switch out to new filter?

I could read for hours and hours and still not know regarding the experience of members who KNOW.

Fishing for knowledge here.

Intend to re-install the air filter and see what happens on a highway run.
Intend to do a DIY "fix" on the portion of tail pipe.

Any magic out there in advice land?

 

[Shayne]

I think your being over sensitive Zooey old school diesels are work horses they will never win any awards for efficiency so being over sensitive towards them will do more harm than good .

Driven daintily the carbon you mention will clog everything up and many have given an old truck they bought a new lease on life with a good old fashioned "Italian tuneup" (drive it like you stole it) because it clears out the crap and lets the engine breathe .

The new air filter resulting in the turbo cutting in more often is a good thing , sounds to me like the fuel additive is doing what its supposed to do and ridding you of some unwanted carbon junk which is probably what the black smoke was .

 

[Julian T]

In my experience black smoke is over fueling, too much fuel and not enough oxygen, otherwise known as an incomplete burn possibly caused by the fuel not atomizing correctly when injected.
Remember that on a turbo charged engine additional fuel is injected when off boost.
nothing to worry about if not excessive.
White smoke from exhaust on the other hand is reason to panic.
I don't use the accelerator when starting a diesel as it should start at idle speed.

 

[StarCruiser]

As above Zo. New air filter is never bad, injector cleaner in an almost empty tank, some of the garage boys even use it neat (Wynns Eco Diesel if you can get it) is going to clear the cr@p out. And above all drive it hard, diesels thrive on it. Startup is when the mixture is just establishing itself so a black puff is often seen. If you are really concerned, it could be worth having the injectors tested and serviced. Bit of a job to get them out and has to be done without getting a grain of dirt in the diesel side but could be worth doing.

Running it hard will blow the cr@p out the back, even in clouds if a lot has built up. Not a bad thing.

I'm a bit puzzled by your 'turbo' light coming on. Maybe someone with specific knowledge of your model can chip in here but that sounds to me like lack of boost more than the turbo being on, not sure on this so await others responses but my light only comes on before startup (80 series) then goes out and stays out. A simple boost gauge fitted to test it would show up any boost pressure issues.
The turbo won't be running during startup. Fueling is increased when the turbo kicks in once you are accelerating and you feel an extra push.
Exhaust crack, no effect but worth changing for genuine Toyota or Stainless total system (then you can go bigger, side exit, etc if you want to).

 

[Julian T]

I have just reread this thread and noticed the bit about the turbo light, correct me if I am wrong but that light should come on when the boost pressure from the turbo drops too low?
On my 80 I have seen that light come on with the engine running when the rpm drops below about 300 rpm, and I have only seen that twice.

 

[StarCruiser]

I have just reread this thread and noticed the bit about the turbo light, correct me if I am wrong but that light should come on when the boost pressure from the turbo drops too low?
On my 80 I have seen that light come on with the engine running when the rpm drops below about 300 rpm, and I have only seen that twice.

That's what I thought. Perhaps Zo has a perished boost line or leaking intake hose?

Worth a check for hisses and splits in the skinny boost lines and main intake piping between turbo and inlet, characterised by oil leaking from them and hanging around gathering dirt.

 

[Rodger]

Although I am no expert in any way regarding turbos, the crack in the exhaust pipe concerns me. I'll explain:
A couple of years back a friend bought a D4D engined people carrier. On the way back from the dealers the turbo blew and the dealer replaced it but within a few hundred miles it blew again. I spoke with another friend, an accredited Mercedes Technician, and he said to change the down pipe from the turbo to the first joint as this has influence on the turbo - gas pressures, etc. This was done and the p/carrier has run perfectly ever since.
A crack , if it is in a part of this sensitive pipe, could be influencing the problem. Exactly where is the crack?

Regards,

 

[zooey]

I have read everything posted here. And am thinking and looking at all advice.

Shayne....your logic follows my own. And all thoughts on fuel/air ratios etc. I am really trying to learn all this on the fly and every input is running through my brain.

Shayne. Reason to take so long to reply is husband (who I convinced last fall to go purchase this Cruiser...he is home and we are both crawling around it. ).

Husband agrees that I need to "drive it like I stole it".............says also that some of my concern is that the exhaust pipe system is getting old. He tells me there is scaling of layers of metal off exhaust. But no cracks or holes.

I dunno, live and learn. and baby steps. But my limited logic tells me what I am looking at is an older exhaust system, lousy fuel here, my fuel additive blowing out crap......

Thanks to all. I will be back with reports. Summer here and I need to drive like I stole it.

 

[Shayne]

No need to be harsh with it Zooey just change gear a little later letting the revs get a bit higher than usual but keep your tachometer out of the red .

Short runs and tootling about doesn't cause problems as such but if that's all the engine does then it rarely gets up to heat and can't clean itself . The fuel additive needs heat to do its work so it may be worth investing in another bottle before going on a 2 hour drive and trying to get there in 90 minutes .

 

[zooey]

Again. All input is so appreciated as it makes me think.

My turbo light is not a warning light. It comes on when the turbo is engaged. Shayne says it is a good thing.

I will do some hard driving. My brain goes to fuel/air..,change of air filter. Turbo was kicking in more at highway speed. So I will run it hard and harder...and see what happens.

Got a quote for OEM exhaust out of Japan.


Here are the prices of exhaust pipes including
"surface" freight from Japan to Armstrong, BC. 1-3 months away

Toyota OEM front pipe $275.00
Toyota OEM centre pipe $275.00
Toyota OEM tail pipe $750.00

Exhaust gaskets are $10.00-12.00 each

Air freight is extra, but the tail pipe is too large to ship by air.

Sheesh but this is insured as a Collector vehicle here...about 1/4 the cost of another comparable vehicle. Idea was to preserve it and apply the insurance savings into quality parts. And where I am the salt air and naked metal of the exhaust system is fair game to fail first.

Thanks and I WILL BE BACK.

 

[Shayne]

No idea about prices in your neck of the woods but most of us with keepers opt for custom made stainless steel exhausts .

 

[wobbly]

Just a thought.......

check the buzzbar that feeds power to the glowplugs on startup, you should get 12v for about 7 seconds.

if no power, the fuel is trying to ignite at too low a temp and not burning properly.

ensure you leave about 7 seconds between dash lights on and turning key to start engine.

Pete

 

[StarCruiser]

Doesn't that usually give white smoke on startup Pete? Zo is getting black out the back while running.

 

[wobbly]

My lj78 buzzbar was wrongly wired - it threw out quite a lot of smoke on start up, but the other symptom was that it took longer to start until the problem was solved.

The OP says mainly on start up? I'd put black smoke when running down to unburnt fuel, an injector cleaner may help but if itsa high mileage then new injectors would be a more permanent solution as they would give a better spray pattern I reckon.

Pete

 

[zooey]

Although I am no expert in any way regarding turbos, the crack in the exhaust pipe concerns me. I'll explain:
A couple of years back a friend bought a D4D engined people carrier. On the way back from the dealers the turbo blew and the dealer replaced it but within a few hundred miles it blew again. I spoke with another friend, an accredited Mercedes Technician, and he said to change the down pipe from the turbo to the first joint as this has influence on the turbo - gas pressures, etc. This was done and the p/carrier has run perfectly ever since.
A crack , if it is in a part of this sensitive pipe, could be influencing the problem. Exactly where is the crack?

Regards,

Thanks Roger. I am looking at this over the weekend. Exhaust system is flaking metal; no holes or real cracks but I am tracing everything from A to B. Looking at the whole system, including the muffler.

But really what you say makes sense.

 

[zooey]

No idea about prices in your neck of the woods but most of us with keepers opt for custom made stainless steel exhausts .

Shayne. I am looking at the cost of the custom bend thanks.. If gold goes up in value then I order it.

But a poor gal could do the OEM system I guess. Coat it with high heat rust paint and then install I guess.

But stainless steel gets my heart racing. Husband can always get a part-time job I guess.

MMMMmmmm stainless steel.

My lj78 buzzbar was wrongly wired - it threw out quite a lot of smoke on start up, but the other symptom was that it took longer to start until the problem was solved.

The OP says mainly on start up? I'd put black smoke when running down to unburnt fuel, an injector cleaner may help but if itsa high mileage then new injectors would be a more permanent solution as they would give a better spray pattern I reckon.

 

[zooey]

Sorry goofed up the quote there.

I have fuel additive. But this Cruiser has about 143,000 km. Barely broken in. Puffs black only on start.

Nobody seems worried but me. I tend to look and read and analyize until I understand. May be that it is a simple thing combination of items....short trips....not driving like I stole it....babying it.

Thanks for all the advice. Now going out to wash and wax..do the interior, check fluids and crawl around the exhaust system.

Stainless steel was just approved in theory by the bread-winning guy.

 

[Shayne]

Look for a shop that can do a stainless exhaust Zooey it costs nothing to get a price and if i convert (replacing $ with £) what your paying for a standard exhaust into British money its double what i paid for a 3" bore custom made performance stainless steel one with a lifetime guarantee .

 

[zooey]

I have just reread this thread and noticed the bit about the turbo light, correct me if I am wrong but that light should come on when the boost pressure from the turbo drops too low?
On my 80 I have seen that light come on with the engine running when the rpm drops below about 300 rpm, and I have only seen that twice.

This Japanese Prado has a turbo light that lights when the turbo is kicking in. Turbo kicks in for extra boost going from lower to higher gears and accelerating at highway speed...or maintaining speed in high gear.

Turbo light goes out when is not engaged, far as I CAN SEE. Guess I need to read up on EFI turbo.