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On this day in history

Another event in history, at 21minutes past 9 this evening it was the 21st minute of the 21st hour of the 21st day of the 21st year of the 21st century
 
Today is the 142nd anniversary of the battle of Rorkes Drift. Zulu casualties are thought to have been around 500.
The garrison of the mission station comprised 8 officers and 131 non-commissioned ranks. Of these 17 were killed and 10 wounded.
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Ah yes - the power of the 0.5 inch Martini-Henry rifle (could kill three Zulus with a single shot).

The Museum of the South Wales Borderers at Sennybridge is very interesting.

Bob.
 
Ah yes - the power of the 0.5 inch Martini-Henry rifle (could kill three Zulus with a single shot).

The Museum of the South Wales Borderers at Sennybridge is very interesting.

Bob.
Zulu snipers took potshots at the soldiers using old muzzleloaders and captured Martini-Henry rifles, but in the case of the latter arms, they believed that setting the slide on the rear sight as high as possible would increase the potency of the ammunition. As a result, they usually fired well over the heads of the British.

Of the 90 men who took part in the defense of the mission station, 70 survived the battle. Eleven men, including Lieutenants Chard and Bromhead, were given the Victoria Cross, Britain's highest award for valor, more than for any single action in the history of the award.

I remember reading somewhere that so many VC's were awarded because good news was required to counteract bad news from something else but I don't know what that bad news was, maybe someone here knows?
 
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It was the battle of Isandlwana, more info here:
 
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Zulu snipers took potshots at the soldiers using old muzzleloaders and captured Martini-Henry rifles, but in the case of the latter arms, they believed that setting the slide on the rear sight as high as possible would increase the potency of the ammunition. As a result, they usually fired well over the heads of the British.
This claim is often repeated without any corroboration quiet insulting to the Zulu warriors .But most important is the fact the Rourke's drift battle is romanticised in British history and culture with the plucky tommy bravely defending against the savage heathens .The reality is that a powerful empire decide to invade and subjugate a free territory to steal it's vast mineral wealth and impose white minority rule , exploiting the indigenous folks as cheap labour in mines and agriculture.
 
This claim is often repeated without any corroboration quiet insulting to the Zulu warriors.
I don't think that is insulting, it's quite feasible that ignorant natives (and I mean that literally not insultingly) not knowing the workings of a rifle could think that setting the slide on the rear sight as high as possible would increase their potency, I expect practise at popping off the Welsh soldiers possibly eventually taught them the correct usage.
 
Whatever the Politics (and your take on history) its always the PBI (Poor Bloody Infantry) at the sharp end.

Armed with single-shot rifles, a long way from reinforcements and facing a determined and much larger enemy. I doubt they felt like a superior force.

Bob.
 
I don't think that is insulting, it's quite feasible that ignorant natives (and I mean that literally not insultingly) not knowing the workings of a rifle could think that setting the slide on the rear sight as high as possible would increase their potency, I expect practise at popping off the Welsh soldiers possibly eventually taught them the correct usage.
my point was Chas that the claim doesn't have any basis in fact & yes the Zulu were ignorant about rifles but they were if fact a well trained army and on occasion their tactics were superior to the British.To suggest that their approach to a new weapon was based on some random idea is insulting.
Yes Bob always the PBI in the line of fire which is why it's important to see invading a free territory & subjugating its people for what it is , clearing away the smokescreen of patriotism. Perhaps if more folks knew their own history fewer would keen on joining the army to fight in foreign wars .
 
To suggest that their approach to a new weapon was based on some random idea is insulting.
I repeat, I don't think that is at all insulting.
The Zulu were ignorant about rifles and yes they were a well trained army, but they didn't know well the workings of a rifle, and as the only ones they had were scavenged from their enemies they would have not had any experience of rifles and therefore 'ignorant' of them, so it's not insulting to call them ignorant.
And can we stop all this bickering and get this thread back on track?
 
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To add perspective try to imagine the fear of those who were later awarded medals . It's their discipline that made the history books , discipline that saved their lives .
 
Most folks don't want to be seen as petty minded so calling a difference of opinion bickering gives the accuser a free hit.

" my point was Chas that the claim doesn't have any basis in fact & yes the Zulu were ignorant about rifles "

" the only ones they had were scavenged from their enemies they would have not had any experience of rifles and therefore 'ignorant' of them "
that was the bit where we agree.

" they believed that setting the slide on the rear sight as high as possible would increase the potency of the ammunition " this quote is often repeated without any evidence .Why i wonder ? why anyone , apart from a bunch of idiots would adopt such a a belief , randomly ? didn't they have any intellect or critical/analytical abilities ? or the ability to observe cause and effect. It is also claimed that the British carried out summary executions of wounded and captured Zulu but it's not repeated as fact.
This apart talk about discipline bravery heroics only serves to paint this battle in a purely emotional way and obscures the sordid truth.
 
The greatest leader this country has ever had and I suspect ever will Winston Churchill..... died this day in 1965 .

A visionary man who helped defeat the Germans in more ways than many will know and also kept the skill set of the SAS going post war .

An interesting and enlightening book to read is "Churchills Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare" ...... gives an insight to how Churchill kept the singly most effective organisation safe from the Ministers who would have had it shut down and indeed did when Labour and Ernest Bevin ensured the complete destruction of an amazing and world beating institution ...an organisation even the Americans couldn't rival.
 
The greatest leader this country has ever had and I suspect ever will Winston Churchill..... died this day in 1965 .

A visionary man who helped defeat the Germans in more ways than many will know and also kept the skill set of the SAS going post war .

An interesting and enlightening book to read is "Churchills Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare" ...... gives an insight to how Churchill kept the singly most effective organisation safe from the Ministers who would have had it shut down and indeed did when Labour and Ernest Bevin ensured the complete destruction of an amazing and world beating institution ...an organisation even the Americans couldn't rival.
Some would disagree citing Churchills role in Gallipoli , the occupation of Norway and Operation Shingle the ww2 landings at Anzio.
 
Most folks don't want to be seen as petty minded so calling a difference of opinion bickering gives the accuser a free hit.
Like I said, lets get this thread back on track and stop the 'bickering' no more comments from me on this subject!
 
Some would disagree citing Churchills role in Gallipoli , the occupation of Norway and Operation Shingle the ww2 landings at Anzio.
Certainly a flawed character who fought "The black dog" and who's experience at Gallipoli caused him much heartache when Overlord was being planned but ultimately saved lives on D Day .
No other person in the UK could have led us through the dark days of WW2 and for that alone we should be thanking him ... the other option doesn't bear thinking about ..... if you want to see the true horror of the fate that awaited the UK should the Germans have invaded and succeeded to gain a beach head have a bit of a trawl on the web
Death squads , slave labour and the rounding up and deportation of any British males were but a few of the highlights ...
 
The greatest leader this country has ever had and I suspect ever will Winston Churchill..... died this day in 1965 .

A visionary man who helped defeat the Germans in more ways than many will know and also kept the skill set of the SAS going post war .
I was working on a building site in the East End, a tower block of flats.
I remember watching from the roof the launch carrying his coffin passing the cranes along dockland as they lowered their jibs in respect.
He had his faults which many people are too keen to spout about (they conveniently forget his good qualities), but his actions and conduct played a great part in keeping up the moral of the British public in times of hardship and stress, he truly was a great man.
 

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On this day, 25 January 1995, Manchester United footballing legend Eric Cantona kung fu kicked a fascist football hooligan, Matthew Simmons, during a match against Crystal Palace. Simmons, who attended far-right National Front and British National Party rallies and has a raft of violent convictions including attacking a football coach who called him "Nazi scum", allegedly heckled Cantona as a "foreigner".
Cantona's maternal grandfather was from Barcelona, and fought against the forces of fascist General Franco during the Spanish civil war, before being forced to flee to France after the nationalist victory.
Years later appearing on the BBC, Cantona was asked what the highlight of his career was. He replied "When I did the kung fu kick on the hooligan… I think maybe it's like a dream for some, you know sometimes to kick these kind of people. So I did it for them. So they are happy."
he also said "My best moment? I have a lot of good moments but the one I prefer is when I kicked the hooligan.
 
On this day in 1986 US space shuttle Challenger broke up, killing all seven astronauts on board, including the teacher Christa McAuliffe.
 
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