Peak civilisation.

[frank rabbets]

I don't know what others think but are we reaching peak civilisation? There seem to be problems which ever way we turn. Global warming, too much waste, cancellation of third runway at Heathrow and now the Corona Virus. Some virologists reckon that this one will circulate the globe annually and we'll all get it at some time unless an immunisation can be found. It makes me feel that it does not take much to knock us off our feet and the more advanced we become the more fragile.

 

[jibberjabber]

I don't know what others think but are we reaching peak civilisation? There seem to be problems which ever way we turn. Global warming, too much waste, cancellation of third runway at Heathrow and now the Corona Virus. Some virologists reckon that this one will circulate the globe annually and we'll all get it at some time unless an immunisation can be found. It makes me feel that it does not take much to knock us off our feet and the more advanced we become the more fragile.

Over population.

 

[Shayne]

Mother nature will always reign in mans ideological folly and right now she's teaching us a lesson about open border globalization .

 

[chapel gate]

My short answer.

We reached it a while ago.

With some countries, including England facing serious over population issues in the not too distant future if the population keeps increasing at the rate it is.

 

[jibberjabber]

My short answer.

We reached it a while ago.

With some countries, including England facing serious over population issues in the not too distant future if the population keeps increasing at the rate it is.

If you think about it, you can trace almost all of the current world woes to over population.

 

[Shayne]

I reckon human history started in the most arid and inhospitable desert on earth , but there's no evidence of it because man wiped everything out before moving on to fresh pastures .

 

[Bob]

It's not so much global overpopulation, but local overpopulation. The uneven spread of resources and with it, wealth is a major factor. For example, here in Ireland we produce enough food for 8 times our population, but almost everyone is so far removed from food production that without the supermarket.. Doomsday.. we saw it today after the govt announced school closure. Within 2 hours the shelves at Tesco etc were empty and people had gone bananas.

Development leads to dependent people

 

[chapel gate]

If you think about it, you can trace almost all of the current world woes to over population.

I agree.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Plot historic global life expectancy next to historic global population growth. And then consider the effect of a highly contagious virus that kills old people. Problem solved.

 

[jibberjabber]

Plot historic global life expectancy next to historic global population growth. And then consider the effect of a highly contagious virus that kills old people. Problem solved.

I take it you class your self as 'not an old person'

 

[Rob Cowell]

I take it you class your self as 'not an old person'

I'm well before the mortality elbow on a coronavirus chart. My point was more (based on no empirical evidence whatsoever) that it's mostly old people who complain about over population, which is mathematically, very much their fault for living so long.

 

[jibberjabber]

I'm well before the mortality elbow on a coronavirus chart. My point was more (based on no empirical evidence whatsoever) that it's mostly old people who complain about over population, which is mathematically, very much their fault for living so long.

Bollocks.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Bollocks.

It's a robust rebuttal, but can you be more specific? I am definitely well before the virus mortality elbow. That's the one thing I can prove empirically.

Because I had nothing better to do when eating my crunchy nut cornflakes just now I did plot population growth, against birth rate (births/1000 of population), and life expectancy. All figures from the World Bank World Development Indicators. I should note the two values on the Y2 axis are not to scale since they are measured differently, but you can see the trends. Life expectancy has gone up 1.5 times since 1960. Birth rates have halved.

 

[jibberjabber]

It's a robust rebuttal, but can you be more specific? I am definitely well before the virus mortality elbow. That's the one thing I can prove empirically.

Because I had nothing better to do when eating my crunchy nut cornflakes just now I did plot population growth, against birth rate (births/1000 of population), and life expectancy. All figures from the World Bank World Development Indicators. I should note the two values on the Y2 axis are not to scale since they are measured differently, but you can see the trends. Life expectancy has gone up 1.5 times since 1960. Birth rates have halved.

Rob Cowell said: ↑
It's a robust rebuttal

Rob Cowell said: ↑
very much their fault for living so long.

So, you think it's old pepoles fault if they die from Corona Disease for 'living so long'.

What's you opinion on 'Aids' who's fault is that, if they catch it.

And if 'Corona Disease' targeted 'the young' would you say it was their fault for being 'so young'

I've got even more 'robust rebuttals' but if I use them I think I might get kicked out of this club.

 

[Paddler Ed]

I'm well before the mortality elbow on a coronavirus chart. My point was more (based on no empirical evidence whatsoever) that it's mostly old people who complain about over population, which is mathematically, very much their fault for living so long.

An example of the longer lifespan:

• My Paternal Grandfather died 10 years or so before I was born, but I had both maternal Grandparents + 1x Great-Grandparent on that side.
• My nephew was born 4 years ago, and he had both maternal and paternal grandparents AND at least 4 Great-Grandparents. My brother was about the same age as our parents were when they had me. The number of Great-Grandparents has dropped of by 3 in the last 2 years, so there is a bit of a drop - but in those 3 cases they were 97 and 92ish respectively...

The challenge is that we are now regularly seeing 4 generation families, where 2 of those generations are not working.... the difference is now that it's those who have chosen/been able to retire.

Although, I think the prize who goes to a Great Great Aunt who had managed to spend longer retired (spinster teacher, so a full 40something years working) than working, and had lived in 3 centuries... but she had no kids because that would have meant being married and not working.

 

[jibberjabber]

I'm well before the mortality elbow on a coronavirus chart. My point was more (based on no empirical evidence whatsoever) that it's mostly old people who complain about over population, which is mathematically, very much their fault for living so long.

You'll be old one day.

 

[jibberjabber]

An example of the longer lifespan:

• My Paternal Grandfather died 10 years or so before I was born, but I had both maternal Grandparents + 1x Great-Grandparent on that side.
• My nephew was born 4 years ago, and he had both maternal and paternal grandparents AND at least 4 Great-Grandparents. My brother was about the same age as our parents were when they had me. The number of Great-Grandparents has dropped of by 3 in the last 2 years, so there is a bit of a drop - but in those 3 cases they were 97 and 92ish respectively...

The challenge is that we are now regularly seeing 4 generation families, where 2 of those generations are not working.... the difference is now that it's those who have chosen/been able to retire.

Although, I think the prize who goes to a Great Great Aunt who had managed to spend longer retired (spinster teacher, so a full 40something years working) than working, and had lived in 3 centuries... but she had no kids because that would have meant being married and not working.

So you also think it's old peoples fault for living longer.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Rob Cowell said: ↑
It's a robust rebuttal

Rob Cowell said: ↑
very much their fault for living so long.

So, you think it's old pepoles fault if they die from Corona Disease for 'living so long'.

What's you opinion on 'Aids' who's fault is that, if they catch it.

And if 'Corona Disease' targeted 'the young' would you say it was their fault for being 'so young'

I've got even more 'robust rebuttals' but if I use them I think I might get kicked out of this club.

Sorry, probably explained myself badly. I think overpopulation is primarily caused by increased life expectancy. Therefore overpopulation is primarily the fault (intentionally chosen, provocative word) of the elderly.

No one's fault for catching a virus, although everyone can minimize their risk and risk to others. How much you can get that risk close to zero being dependent on how much you can afford to isolate yourself.

I was bringing the two points together in this thread because I think there was the suggestion that the effects of coronavirus are exacerbated by over population. And I was pointing out the effects would naturally target the metric that primarily is responsible for overpopulation; old people.

 

[Rob Cowell]

So you also think it's old peoples fault for living longer.

I don't really think it's anyone's fault. I was being provocative in the use of the word. But if we want to find a cause for overpopulation then I think old people are the primary cause. I don't blame them for living longer. I want to live for a long time too. But I accept I will be part of the primary cause for population growth.

 

[jibberjabber]

Sorry, probably explained myself badly. I think overpopulation is primarily caused by increased life expectancy. Therefore overpopulation is primarily the fault (intentionally chosen, provocative word) of the elderly.

No one's fault for catching a virus, although everyone can minimize their risk and risk to others. How much you can get that risk close to zero being dependent on how much you can afford to isolate yourself.

I was bringing the two points together in this thread because I think there was the suggestion that the effects of coronavirus are exacerbated by over population. And I was pointing out the effects would naturally target the metric that primarily is responsible for overpopulation; old people.

'Old people' are not responsible for 'over population' you logic is flawed.