Steel bars

[wedgetail]

Are steel bull bars/winch bars legal in the UK? Specifically ARB Sahara bar?

 

[Chris]

Yes, but technically they are supposed to actually have a winch mounted in them.

 

[wedgetail]

Im struggling with the logic here - so it’s illegal without a winch but as soon as you mount one up it’s ok?

 

[Shayne]

With a winch fitted it becomes a utility bumper - its a tool not a ram raid weapon

 

[Chris]

Who said logic has anything to do with it? Not legal without a winch in it. Legal with one in it. Doesn't get any simpler. Doesn't make any sense, but them's the rules. Supposedly to do with pedestrian safety. Big metal bar kills, you can't have one. Ahh, but I need a recovery winch. Oh, OK then, that's fine. Try not to run anyone over if you can help it. Yes Sir!

 

[wedgetail]

Wow, I thought Australia authorities were the worst...

I don’t doubt you guys are wrong, but is there a link to the legislation?

 

[Chris]

I don't think that we see this as a problem over here. We want winches and that means fitting a winch bumper. Not a common question we get - can I have a hoofing great bumper on my Cruiser but not put a winch in it? You see, we don't have kangaroos.

 

[wedgetail]

Yeah, I guess that’s right. I notice it’s similar in the US - far more steel bumpers than full bull bars. But you have deer? It’s not just Roos that are the issue here (although they’re probably 90%), also cows, feral pigs (I managed to clear up 9 once in the space of about 5m with my HZJ79) and up north feral donkeys, horses and camels. Had a mate hit cow in an HDJ79 towing 4.5T of firewood, wrote the ARB bullbar off but ute was untouched.

Also they spread the impact a fair bit when hitting another vehicle, I guess the authorities don’t like this either - more damage to what you’re hitting and less to you

 

[Chris]

We do have around 45,000 deer strikes in the UK but the vast majority of people here drive cars, not 4x4s. Hitting a deer is somewhat random where as hitting a roo for example or a Moose in Sweden is pretty expected.

 

[Shayne]

I find it easy to imagine the rules come from a wise and fair law lord when presented with a call for an outright ban due to some very sad circumstance hence both plaintiff and defendant won their case and so the law is written .

An incident of road rage involving a steel bumper without a winch would likely see the "illegal" vehicle crushed but day to day nobody actually cares if you have a winch or not .

 

[wedgetail]

We do have around 45,000 deer strikes in the UK but the vast majority of people here drive cars, not 4x4s. Hitting a deer is somewhat random where as hitting a roo for example or a Moose in Sweden is pretty expected.

yeah, I guess that’s true. It would be a be location dependant though - you’re unlikely to hit a roo if you live in the suburbs, likewise surely you’re much more likely to hit a deer if you live in a rural area where there are heaps around

An incident of road rage involving a steel bumper without a winch would likely see the "illegal" vehicle crushed

what’s the go there - surely it’s less wasteful to make the vehicle legal or just slap a defect notice on it?

 

[IvanD]

You can follow the development of the legislation here - https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01216/SN01216.pdf
Curiously it's a UK initiative that led to EU legislation.

Nowhere it says anything about winches and neither do the EU regulations, so I assume it's some other law or interpretation that apply to them.
I do not believe there ever was an exemption for winches in the EU, like there is in the UK.

 

[wedgetail]

Thanks for the document, that’s a good official source. So is there any official mention about winches making the bats exempt?

 

[Shayne]

what’s the go there - surely it’s less wasteful to make the vehicle legal or just slap a defect notice on it?

Its punishment pure and simple and it fits with the drive that everyone everywhere should spend all their money on a new car every 3 years .

A very quick scan of Iwan's legislation it relates to new cars , hence many years ago lamedrover fitted sponge bullbars to their new discovery .

I vaguely remember a campaign to have steel bars banned after a child died when a bumper hit her head about 20mph . Asking myself the same question one sleepless night i spent hours trawling the web to find my "utility" claim and i won't be doing that again because the reality is nobody actually cares . A bit like off road tyres i suppose they are all rated one way or another but who actually checks ................. unless they are seen to be a contributing factor i an incidence of legal consequence .

I reckon a boy racer would soon get police attention if he fitted one to his hot hatch though .

 

[wedgetail]

Its punishment pure and simple and it fits with the drive that everyone everywhere should spend all their money on a new car every 3 years .

what a disgusting, disgraceful, wasteful and environmentally damaging ethos.

I’m sure you’re right on the other points. It’s just good to know the law as precisely as you can before making that judgement...

 

[flint]

ARB have bought out a plastic bar (called a SmartBar) that'll take a winch which is supposed to be safer for pedestrians:

SMARTBAR - ARB Europe

arbeurope.com

 

[IvanD]

Wow, that is hideous!