Steel versus alloy rims

[SimonD]

I know this is a perennial debate time. Accepted logic is to use steel rims when in truly remote places because you can whack them back into shape if you damage them.

I currently have 16x7 steel Dotz on [265/75/16 BFG ATs] and want to move to 285/75/16 BFG ATs and change the rims to 16x8. The reason I'm thinking about alloy is because I have a Strongarm dual wheel carrier which hangs out a bit [MILES] and I'm thinking about the impact of extra weight of bigger tyres with bigger steel rims.

In Europe alloys are understandable but the question I have for people who've travelled further afield is that, when going truly remote, how many would/have trust their lives to alloy rims - keeping in mind I have six in my setup not four and this may change your answer. Hell, I'll take all opinions!

Now i know some will argue that the 265 is a better overlanding tyre for the 80 than a 285 but for now I need to settle on the rim - that is a whole separate argument.

265 - less sidewall damage on rough terrain, good traction with heavy truck, 2L per 100km better fuel economy, less lift required, lighter [a bit]
285 - looks better on an 80, ?, ?, ?

 

[Andrew Prince]

Depends whether you have the OEM alloys or not already, Simon? If you do, then I think you won't go far wrong with them. The alloys are pretty tough and you'd have to be pretty unlucky to break one, not to mention other damage that might result from a big enough crunch to break an OEM rim. How remote do you envisage going? Remember that your steel rim might be repairable but equally might not - the steelie doesn't give you a guaranteed option to repair, so I think this perceived benefit tends to be overplayed a bit.
I haven't tested them but does an alloy break before a steel one bends or is the alloy perhaps stronger (albeit it when it breaks, it's irreparable)?

If you're buying from scratch then there might be better deals on steel wheels, although they wouldn't solve your weight problem on the spares. Answer depends a bit on whether you want the most elegant solution or the cheapest

I 265 - less sidewall damage on rough terrain, good traction with heavy truck, 2L per 100km better fuel economy, less lift required, lighter [a bit]
285 - looks better on an 80, ?, ?, ?

You really get that much improvement in fuel consumption on 265 versus 285? Hell, I'd stick with 265 for that advantage alone. The rest of the pros & cons are relatively minor either way IMO.

 

[adrianr]

Do remember the steel wheels are a lot heavier than alloys as well.

Factory alloys are very tough.

 

[sae70]

Do remember the steel wheels are a lot heavier than alloys as well

Are they

 

[chriscolleman]

I for one don't like alloy wheels.

Simply because I like to be able to change a wheel out with simple hand tools.
Don't know why, probably something to do with oxidation.
But lug nuts that haven't been loosened on an alloy for some time are always a pain.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

The OEM 16x8 steels are very heavy. The OEM alloys are supposed to be high quality and very strong. I ran into a parked car when I slid on black ice in my 80, hitting it hard enough to push the passenger front Simex tyre off the bead but the alloy wheel was undamaged. I've gouged them leaning on rocks and bashed them pretty hard against rock steps and I'm inclined to think they deserve their reputation for being strong That's OEM though, I wouldn't have the same faith in after market unless they were also known to be tough.

 

[sae70]

I had to go away and look for myself with regards the weight and it is said that an alloy can be up to 1/3rd lighter than a equivalent steely

I also found this;

Steel

Most genuine wheels are made of steel. An stamped inner part is junctioned to a rolled outer rim and nowadays welded together. If you look at older rims on Willys of Toyotas you can still se that they were riveted together. The setup is strong, easy to repair but most important, cheap to fabricate. They can be painted over and over again if years of off roading take their toll. Many manufacturers use the same production method but take stronger and/or thicker materials to increase load capacity and they also make them in sizes better suited to aftermarket tires. The biggest disadvantage of steel is it's weight or better it's lack of performance. An alloy wheel will accelerate faster and stop quicker as well as reducing load on shocks and steering linkages. How can such a rather small weight difference make up for a drastic change you may ask. After all the difference will rarely exceed 8 pounds peer wheel. This would be true in a static situation.

But the wheel is a dynamic part on the car. It's weight must be accelarated and braked, it's movements must be tamed. And everyone familiar with physical laws can tell you that a moving parts inertia is completely different from a static part as the rest of the axle is (in this example).

Just to give you an idea of how much energy is stored in an tire wheel combo let me tell you something I saw myself: One day I was driving on the motorway to work when I was overtaken by an Alfa Romeo, you know, these small italian sports cars. The guy was doing about 110 Km/h when I noticed his left front wheel wobble and suddenly coming loose. The wheel slowly run along the car, then drifted to the middle when it hit the separation. Although it hit the wall at a very flat angle it immediately changed direction, jumped over the Alfa in windscreen height and only landed some 50 yards away in a meadow where it still went on for about 300 yards. Imagine how much force this took- and it was only a very small wheel, about 13inches with an equal small tire. Had it hit a car it would have smashed through the windscreen and killed everybody inside. Luckily the guy brought his car to a standstill with nothing more than a damaged brake disc.

So what does this show us? There's a tremdous amount of force stored in a rotating wheel. You need much energy to get it up to speed and you need also good brakes to bring it down. The steering linkages will wear faster too.The heavier a wheel/tire combo the more energy is needed. Similar for shock absorbers. If you have a heavy wheel they will take a beating. So aim for the lowest possible weight.

A steel wheel will also bend much earlier than an alloy wheel. But you can hammer an steel wheel back in shape while an alloy wheel will usually break. So if you intend to do many miles far away from civilization keep the steel. If shopping for used rims you can test them by mounting them and holding a pencil or similar against the edge and rotating the wheel. This runout can be of up to 2-3mm even on new wheels but I'd keep off if it exceeds more than this.

Old miltary wheels are mostly bent so keep that in mind. This is less of a problem on cars seldom exceeding 80 Km/h. Also it's not uncommon for steel to rust to a point where structural integrity is affected.

Aluminium alloys

One piece cast alloys

Those are the usual rims offered on the market for 4x4 applications. Up to 1/3th lighter than steel, restant to bending and not too expensive they are good for almost all applications. Beware however of rims marked 'not for off road use'. Their disadvantage is that they can break. However this is very rare and only caused by violent encounters of the sort that would also ruin the tire and bend a steel rim They do get scratches and dents on the trail and don't support winter roads well without special care. If corroded they take more work to refurbish. Corrosion however rarely affects their structure to a point rendering them dangerous.

Two piece alloys

Also called modulars they have a cast center and a spun rim, held together by welds, rivets or even nuts and bolts (not legal in many states). Their construction makes for a very strong and lightweight wheel but they are easily bent and hard to repair. They are also cheap to produce so they make up the majority of alloys for street going cars.

Forged alluminium alloys

Those are the best and most expensive wheels for our applications. They are way stronger than steel and lighter than most cast alloys. They are also the most expensive to buy.

Carbon fiber

Those wheels are very rarely seen on 4x4's. They are extremely light, less than half that of a steel rim of the same capacity. However they are prone to breakage if not constructed for off road use- and I know of none produced in greater quantities. They are also extremely expensive due to initial cost of raw material and the lot of manual work involved. Count about 10 times the price of a forged alloy wheel.

There's also an alloy wheel section on Wiki

edit - I've always run alloys on all of my trucks over the last 8years or so and wouldn't say that I've treated them well and I've never had one let me down, touch wood

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

AFAIK the OEM alloys are forged and I think they're more than 1/3rd lighter than the steels but I don't have the numbers to back that up

 

[Chris]

Having both alloy and steel, I can attest to the fact that steels are MUCH heavier. Staggeringly so in fact. Having to accelerate that extra mass must cost more in fuel and you can certainly feel the difference. I dunno about the veracity of the claims that steel are better as you can knock them into shape, but like Jon, I have never bent an alloy. If I felt that they were actually better and I was lucky enough to be going on a long overland trip - I may well go on steels, but I'd take an alloy spare. Just so that when I came to have to shift it around (as I undoubtedly would) I wouldn't need medical interventions on my nether regions! I am building a rear carrier at the second and quite concerned as to how I am going to get the steel spare on there! I have even thought if there would be a way to use my rear winch to get the thing up into position.

Chris

 

[SimonD]

I have the Dotz steelies Andrew so would need to buy the OEM alloys as my next set of rims. Remoteness is more about longevity. When we finally leave these shores we'll be driving to Oz via a few other continents so it is more about self-sufficiency. However, I'm not looking to go rock crawling in the middle of nowhere. I thought that on the steel too - you have to be able to bang it back into shape to make a seal and that isn't guaranteed anyway.

The dual rear carrier sagged with the previous owners [probably worked loose and wasn't attended to] and I'm not looking to repeat that so weight is an issue [as it is for changing them].

My issue on after-market is that I know brands to avoid in Australia and which ones are ok but I don't know here so any recommendations of non-OEM would be good too - just to consider.

You really get that much improvement in fuel consumption on 265 versus 285? Hell, I'd stick with 265 for that advantage alone. The rest of the pros & cons are relatively minor either way IMO.

Yes I did a lot of research on that one on LCOOL - many trucks run at 12-14L per 100km and outside one or two who noticed no difference the rest suggested increased fuel usage of up to 2L.

Despite this the majority of 80s in Oz run 285 [or bigger] so looks and possibly clearance seem to outweigh ........ logic

But lug nuts that haven't been loosened on an alloy for some time are always a pain.

I think that may come down to people overtightening nuts on alloys - they have a lower torque requirement than steels on the 80.

Steve, I saw that bit too in my research but that's why I wanted to ask everybody about real-world experience.

 

[Andrew Prince]

IRemoteness is more about longevity. When we finally leave these shores we'll be driving to Oz via a few other continents so it is more about self-sufficiency. However, I'm not looking to go rock crawling in the middle of nowhere.

Wihtout wishing(!) to be too analytical about this, consider the basic risk-probability-consequence assessment:
I think we can conclude that a steel rim of suitable strength is going to outweigh an OEM alloy rim significantly. So for the sake of argument, the options are a heavy steel rim, which can possibly be fixed if bent, versus a lighter OEM alloy, which is of at least equal strength to the steel.

It sounds like your wheel carrier is much more likely to break under the weight of steels than alloys. You are equally likely (if rims are equal strength as assumed) to break a steel rim as an alloy - but steel can probably be fixed - probability of either breaking is low, plus you have 2 spares so major consequences of a breakage are relatively small and virtually negates the advantage of steel being fixable.
Losing the wheel-carrier + 2 spares unnoticed = major consequence.
My conclusion: go with alloys.

But playing devil's advocate, buying 6 alloys in decent shape will cost money, even offsetting what you can get for your steelies. What is the cost of making your wheel carrier much stronger? Probably less than the alloys
Conclusion: See what making your wheel carrier strong enough will cost and make your choice on cost grounds.

Fun choices

 

[SimonD]

Priced up OEM MrT alloys and they are around £340plus VAT. I thought the price was ok until I was told that was the price EACH. Even moving to OEM alloy nuts would be £6+vat each - ouch

Actually Dotz do 4x4 alloys and they seem to be around £130 per corner. I've never bought rims in the UK before so don't have anything to compare this price to but Dotz are pretty well known in Europe's 4WD scene so I'd expect the quality to be there.

The wheel carrier is strong enough [Strongarm after all - used in mining] - not looking to strengthen it up only to have something connected fail, and the added weight. Truck already has long ranger so "light is good" is what I'm looking at.

My steelies are looking awfully good for a blast and powdercoat.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Buy some second hand OEM alloys if you go for alloys, they're not exactly rare and not usually too expensive, a set usually being less than you were quoted for a single!

 

[Ben]

just been reading the article below and it reminded me of this thread.

some very interesting findings reported on page 3 and 4 of the article.

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/articles/20 ... ld-rivalry