The cars that made Britain…Really?

[StarCruiser]

First out of the box, guess what…yep the Land Rover Defender, except they didn't show a Defender, but series 1, series 2, etc. What a thing! According to one dear lady with a serious case of rose tinted spectacles, they could go anywhere (ok, give you that, but they didn't say anything about getting back) and never break down as they were so reliable!! If something broke you could fix it on the kitchen table with a bit of tree….! What?
Sorry, I think you may be talking about something else.
But then, a little thing, yes, but they give some chap a chance to drive the first one made and yes, there it is. He arrives in a Landcruiser. I liked him from that moment on. Especially as he pointed out all the holes in it where you could see daylight. Including under the dash!!

Ain't nostalgia great!!

 

[StarCruiser]

And now they're on the Range Rover. Oh they're gushing 'fantastic and well made design' says Julia Bradbury. Clearly she hasn't encountered a P38!

 

[Gav missin]

And now they're on the Range Rover. Oh they're gushing 'fantastic and well made design' says Julia Bradbury. Clearly she hasn't encountered a P38!

My aunts 18 month old autobiography. Fat end of 80 k when new. Gearbox shat itself on the dual carriageway, locking up and shearing all the timing gear. Result new engine new gearbox. Landrover assist did try the "well it has done a lot of miles!!! (70 000) high for age but all motorway work. Well made eh Julia! !!!!

 

[StarCruiser]

Sounds more like the timing gear went, locking the engine solid and wrecking the gearbox as the weak link in the drivetrain.
But then I'm no mechanic.

 

[Gav missin]

Sounds more like the timing gear went, locking the engine solid and wrecking the gearbox as the weak link in the drivetrain.
But then I'm no mechanic.

She was accelerating hard off a roundabout when the car kangarooed down the road in her words. Engine still ran but sounded like a bag of nails. Recovery couldn't drag it with the winch at first. When they started it and selected a gear was still solid then made lots of grinding and clanking and suddenly drove on to the lorry.

 

[StarCruiser]

Interesting Gav. Clearly not a timing belt gone then. Wonderful vehicles…so reliable!

 

[Bob]

There is a massive patriotic rose tinting when it comes to LR products, as there was with MG Rover at its demise, despite the fact that all they had done on the previous 10 years is take a solid family saloon in the Honda Civic, and turn it into a complete pile..

I'm first to admit that LR make capable vehicles, and the early ones didn't break like the newer stuff, but outside of the UK and the British armed forces, who really uses them? The UN have been using landcruisers and patrols for years. Any part of the world where the going is REALLY tough, Toyota is king..

 

[StarCruiser]

Well the Australians say if you want to go into the bush take a Land Rover…


But then they say if you want to come back take a Landcruiser.

 

[Gav missin]

There is a massive patriotic rose tinting when it comes to LR products, as there was with MG Rover at its demise, despite the fact that all they had done on the previous 10 years is take a solid family saloon in the Honda Civic, and turn it into a complete pile..

I'm first to admit that LR make capable vehicles, and the early ones didn't break like the newer stuff, but outside of the UK and the British armed forces, who really uses them? The UN have been using landcruisers and patrols for years. Any part of the world where the going is REALLY tough, Toyota is king..

Newer landrovers just

Well the Australians say if you want to go into the bush take a Land Rover…


But then they say if you want to come back take a Landcruiser.

Can't deny the defender has an iconic status but on the pay and play days we attend they just don't cut the mustard no more. Even heavily modified. Most mot failure Japanese 4wd with a set of tyres are easily a match. Biast I know but my 80 mud truck walked everything Sunday and pulled out plenty of landrovers. Never lifted the bonnet apart from to jump start dead trucks and drove home faultlessly. Many broken discovery s though. Have you seen the styling of the new Discovery's back end. It's awful. Looks like it's melted!!

 

[Shayne]

I hope with the Defender gone Toyota will see a worldwide calling for exactly that type of vehicle .

 

[Gav missin]

I hope with the Defender gone Toyota will see a worldwide calling for exactly that type of vehicle .

Think rules and regulations will see the end of this type of truck now Shayne. Everything has to meet such tight emissions and safety ratings now that I think unfortunately they are a thing of the past. Shame.

 

[clivehorridge]

In the days when LR started, back in '47 or thereabouts, the international motor industry worked very differently. Internationally there were few imports or exports, and the US had Jeep (and the jeep) [cough], Japan had what became Toyota, and England (oh, ok, Britain) had the LR.

Being British, ours was the best, and we didn't even bother looking at the others. There was no competition, because importing cars was not the done thing, and the very capable LR (compared with any other British car) developed a romantic "Best offroad" image (which it deserved in the 50s and early 60s) which stuck.

Thereafter, LR failed on 3 counts at least. (i) They still didn't look at the oppo but entered into the export business, without even looking at the imports to see what they were offering; (ii) they refused to develop the vehicle internally, staying with the trusted formula success of the past (which had by now become 100% romance); and (iii) they (as a Nationalised industry) realized they were losing a fortune and should do something about it.

No bad thing in this commercial world, but cutting the product quality is never a good way to cur costs, long term.

One old boy close to retirement, when I was there as a lad, said to me the "good days have gone, ever since they decided to try to make money instead of good cars". I believe he was right. From the early 70s onward, they were all out to make money. Rover launched itself into only the luxury market with the SD1 and LR saw the RR as their ticket to make money, high end high price, high profit compared with the meccano sets being assembled alongside to the same old formula, but now with cheaper chocolate parts.

Gearbox, failures, diff failures, bearings of all types failures, oil seal failures, something utterly unheard of on the vehicles built between 1947 and the late 60s.

From the mid 70s to when they got sold off, LR made neither money nor good cars.

The farm and hunting brigade RR, what had been a very capable comfy off roader and great towing vehicle of its day, turned into an asphalt gismo SUV, and the rest is history.

This is JMO and surely only part of the story, but amazingly, the nostalgia or romance is still there.

Sad but true, but totally unfounded now, as it has been for some time. Toyota does lead the way and there's several close contenders, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and a few more, they just don't include LR.

 

[froggy Steve]

I have to admit on having one of the 1st 3.9 v8 Rangies - it was a 1990 and had done about 50k when we bought it in 94. Kept that car for 4 years. Towed my series 2 off roader to pay and play days. Loads of fun and comfort. Never let us down but, Wifey wanted a sports car........ Still miss it!

 

[Dave2000]

By coincidence I have been working on finding a misfire in a TD5 Discovery this week. The owner is absolutely fastidious about using only OE parts, oil changed twice a year regardless of mileage no expense spared......blah blah.

He was gutted that he lost power over 2,500 rpm just before needing it to go to the airport for a visit to the UK. I eventually tracked down the problem down to oil in the ECU...........no honestly. The oil moves down the loom between the copper strands and drips into the ECU, resistances go haywire and the injectors start to misfire.

New top loom (goes under the rocker cover), stripped ECU down to the printed circuit and using food grade contact cleaner (does not affect rubber or plastic) washed it out. Was running fine yesterday, and today as having lunch with friends in the mountains I will take the car and test it, all being well on Tuesday evening I hope to pick up the happy customer from Murcia about an hours drive away.......fingers crossed!!

I have come to the conclusion the 300tdi Defender/Discovery was the last decent car that LR produced, my own 200tdi Discovery was brilliant but needed constant fettling but it was worked very hard. Now LR products with Peugeot V6 diesels snapping their crankshafts, D3 suspension failures, the ECU forgetting what gear the MANUAL gearbox is in, limp home mode activated at 120 KPH reducing speed to 40 kph.......in the outside lane of the Autovia, because a sensor has declared the vehicle is 'off road'........and an electric handbrake D3/D4 that needs stripping and cleaning every 50 (that is FIFTY) off road miles, this is in the official maintenance schedule FFS!!

Being an off road enthusiast mechanic I get to see a lot of 4x4 vehicles, the ratio of breakdowns from the LR products against other marques is astonishing, Toyota and Mitsubishi being the most reliable with Nissan close behind.

regards

Dave

 

[StarCruiser]

I've heard about oil in the ECU before and couldn't understand how on Earth it could get there. What a ridiculous design. Who in their right mind would take wires from inside a hot oil soaked chamber to the outside without going through a sealed connector. Oil hardens insulation and makes it brittle especially with heat. It beggars belief.

 

[Dave2000]

The diesel/oil is forced from the injector head with enough force to get between the cable strands and outer insulation. It then exits the head at a connector and at that point IMO no longer under pressure, if it was then it would leak out of the connector where the pins are solid. What now happens is under the action of gravity the oil works it's way between the various cables and exits at the ECU connector.

Now it is free to flood the plug and socket connector and seep into the ECU, the ECU being the lowest point of the harness and lays on it's side. Oil in itself does not conduct electricity very well, but I think it lays across the ECU internal electronics and thus causes a path conductive enough (oil would have various other elements in it by now) to cause the misfire?

It is not the first time I have seen this but, with a carefully serviced car and with only 107,000 miles it is a bit shameful IMO. I always look for this when servicing the TD5 range and this particular one was serviced last December, no sign of oil contamination, so three months later and the injector/cable/seals have failed.

Just got back from my mountain lunch and test run, the car is running very well, so tick that one off the list.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave_S]

Some valid comments and come usual Landy bashing, I think.

I've owned a lot of 4x4s inc several Landies - including a very early V8 2 door Rangy and a 200 Tdi Defender. Both vehicles were used and abused, but for the most part very reliable. The Defender in particular seemed to run on witch craft, not using oil or water between servicing, any breakages were typically me going stupid.

Any 20 year old vehicle will need tinkering with to some extent - our 80 Series Cruiser is solid and pretty reliable, but we've probably done about the same maintenance on that as we did with the 200 Tdi.

As well as the Cruiser I've also got a Puma 110 at the moment - its actually a nice truck, but doesn't have the same nature as the old 200 Tdi - I don't think the Ford engine and 6 speed box suit the vehicle. It'll be getting sold on again soon, not sure what to buy next to be honest with you. Maybe that's the start of another thread!!