Torque converter..... recommendations

[Howmanygoes]

hi all, you may remember I cancelled my TC works whilst I tried to sort the starting and running issues. Well I think these are resolved full service done. Genuine fuel filter fitter. In tank filter changed.

So I a have been driving her for a few short trips to get some confidence back with her and today I got the shudder back. Just the once pulling into some lights, and when I think back most of the stalling/stopping issues I had previously would haven be when I would be changing down (if it were a manual) so time to bite the bullet and get it done.

I’ve been trying to get hold of overland cruisers since end of December, phone and email, sent them one last message today then will give up. I have one quote but welcome recommendations for companies to undertake the work. I live in North Leicestershire and will travel for a good service (up to 100miles).

 

[StarCruiser]

I know we’ve been here before but why do you think it’s the torque converter if it runs fine most of the time but gets a shudder occasionally? What have you done to prove it is at fault? Have you checked to see if it falls within the time span of those with the faulty bushing? Surely if it had a problem there would be other symptoms? What does the FSM say?

Or are you just going to throw a huge amount of money at it and hope you’ve guessed right?

 

[Chris]

I didn't see the original post, but I'm with Rich on the question. A TC is a steel drum with fins in. There's no moving parts. I've got one sitting in my shed. Sure there are things associated with the TC but the actual unit is pretty unlikely to be the issue. Can we have a link to the original thread? If we can assist we certainly will.

 

[Howmanygoes]

Hi both. My original post was called “stalling issues”. It’s not far down the list on page 1.

Yes my LC falls in the time frame of TC issues, Jan 2001...

I have a good understanding of how a Tc works. there is definitely something a miss with the transmission.

 

[Howmanygoes]

This previous thread pretty much sums it up

https://www.landcruiserclub.net/community/threads/2001-100-series-auto-transmission-issues.148098/

 

[Howmanygoes]

I know we’ve been here before but why do you think it’s the torque converter if it runs fine most of the time but gets a shudder occasionally? What have you done to prove it is at fault? Have you checked to see if it falls within the time span of those with the faulty bushing? Surely if it had a problem there would be other symptoms? What does the FSM say?

Or are you just going to throw a huge amount of money at it and hope you’ve guessed right?

I’d rather not throw cash at it and hope some of it sticks.... a new Tc means I have to delay purchase of other accessories.

 

[StarCruiser]

I’d rather not throw cash at it and hope some of it sticks.... a new Tc means I have to delay purchase of other accessories.

I’m not saying it isn’t, especially if it falls within the timing. All I’m saying is one of the main rules of troubleshooting, don’t remove anything until it’s proven faulty. There are a few exceptions but not many. There must be some test that the FSM specifies.

 

[Howmanygoes]

I will do a stall test today. Does anyone know what the stall rpm should be?

 

[StarCruiser]

While I see Google shows a site advocating a stall test, there us this one with other tests

http://etereman.com/blog/transmissi...onverter-problems-procedures-for-all-vehicles

I would guess comparing your stall rpm to another identical cruiser, if you can get someone with a good one to do a stall test, would be one way to get a rpm value.

As for mechanics, have you tried @Trevor on here? Freedom 4x4.

 

[Howmanygoes]

C

While I see Google shows a site advocating a stall test, there us this one with other tests

http://etereman.com/blog/transmissi...onverter-problems-procedures-for-all-vehicles

I would guess comparing your stall rpm to another identical cruiser, if you can get someone with a good one to do a stall test, would be one way to get a rpm value.

As for mechanics, have you tried @Trevor on here? Freedom 4x4.

Cheers. I had already found this page, and it was useful. The FSM still has the stall test in there (the fsm I have is for a 2004). I videoed my diagnostics tool as I did it to watch it back. Revs just appear to climb. Maybe i bottled it and didn’t hold it quite long enough (only A few seconds 1.5 to 2).

Any how. Took her out for a drive after and had the juddering issue 3 times. Whilst trying different things. All appears to be when coasting down from a higher speed and 4th (though not 100% on the gear).

No not tried @Trevor. Hopefully he sees this. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[StarCruiser]

If you have the FSM then I would go by that and it should have the expected revs somewhere, or at least a result you need to expect. If it goes past the expected revs by a significant amount then I would abort the test. What revs did it climb to before you aborted?

I can’t remember if I mentioned to check your fluid and make sure the level was correct on hot after cycling through all gears with engine running but I guess I would have.

One thought, does the juddering go if you manually drop a gear or put the transmission in N?

Something that website said was the inclusion of a one way clutch (I’ve no idea if yours has this or not but probably does) which suggests to me works on the overrun. In other words locks the TC for engine braking. It would be interesting to see what happens if you do drop down a gear manually to see if it stops the juddering.

 

[Howmanygoes]

If you have the FSM then I would go by that and it should have the expected revs somewhere, or at least a result you need to expect. If it goes past the expected revs by a significant amount then I would abort the test. What revs did it climb to before you aborted?

I can’t remember if I mentioned to check your fluid and make sure the level was correct on hot after cycling through all gears with engine running but I guess I would have.

One thought, does the juddering go if you manually drop a gear or put the transmission in N?

Something that website said was the inclusion of a one way clutch (I’ve no idea if yours has this or not but probably does) which suggests to me works on the overrun. In other words locks the TC for engine braking. It would be interesting to see what happens if you do drop down a gear manually to see if it stops the juddering.

If I drop to N it goes away. The FSM talks at out 5th gear as the 2004 I think had a different box. So need the rpms from a 2001.

 

[uHu]

The TC of the early HDJ100 had a design fault, and the normal testing procedure would not necessarily lead to the right conclusion. The early TC had a ceramic bearing that fails and disintegrates. When (afaik it should be "when", not "if") this problem occurs, the car should not be driven if you want to prevent the whole gearbox to be contaminated with bearing particles stuck in the valves and passages. It is strange though, that you get this problem only now, after so many years and km covered. But, if you cannot find any record of the TC ever being replaced, it is likely that this is indeed the problem.

I had this problem on my 2000 HDJ100. It would only appear after the TC had locked up, i.e. at full operating temperature and at a speed of 80 km/h (or over 60 and low power if the OD is off). So, on my normal days driving 10 km to work, I would never see the problem as it would hardly reach operating temp and the speeds are low. If at normal operating temperature, I would see the problem when continuously reducing the speed to nearly zero when locked up. The symptom is just as if it was a manual gearbox where you don't depress the clutch when stopping. If I changed gear manually, or touched the accelerator when the speed was under 60, it would go out of lock up and the problem not show.

The stall speed of the standard TC is 1800, but you wouldn't see any problems there because of a faulty bearing. It only affects the ability to automatically go out of lock up.

 

[StarCruiser]

The TC of the early HDJ100 had a design fault, and the normal testing procedure would not necessarily lead to the right conclusion. The early TC had a ceramic bearing that fails and disintegrates. When (afaik it should be "when", not "if") this problem occurs, the car should not be driven if you want to prevent the whole gearbox be contaminated with bearing particles stuck in the valves and passages. It is strange though, that you get this problem after so many years and km covered. But, if you cannot find any record of the TC ever being replaced, it is likely that this is indeed the problem.

I had this problem on my 2000 HDJ100. It would only appear after the TC had locked up, i.e. at full operating temperature and at a speed of 80 km/h (or over 60 and low power if the OD is off). So, on my normal days driving 10 km to work, I would never see the problem as it would hardly reach operating temp and the speeds are low. If at normal operating temperature, I would see the problem when continuously reducing the speed to nearly zero when locked up. The symptom is just as if it was a manual gearbox where you don't depress the clutch when stopping. If I changed gear manually, or touched the accelerator when the speed was under 60, it would go out of lock up and the problem not show.

The stall speed of the standard TC is 1800, but you wouldn't see any problems there because of a faulty bearing. It only affects the ability to automatically go out of lock up.

Thanks Uhu for such a detailed explanation. This does sound familiar. Maybe the OP needs that TC after all.

 

[Chris]

Indeed a great posting. My point about the TC still stands though. A bearing is not the TC is it. It's a bearing. Not sure I can quite recall, but isn't it a bit like a pilot bearing into which a small spigot on the TC engages when installed?

 

[flint]

I don't know if the design has changed much, but this pic is of an '86 Land Cruiser torque convertor. A fluid flywheel is a simpler thing, similar but minus the stator.

 

[Howmanygoes]

Indeed a great posting. My point about the TC still stands though. A bearing is not the TC is it. It's a bearing. Not sure I can quite recall, but isn't it a bit like a pilot bearing into which a small spigot on the TC engages when installed?

Again just to echo, and confirm what I thought I knew.

Is it there possible just to replace the bearing or is it a integral part. Guess I will be booking her in for the swap out.

 

[Chris]

Not a TC expert and not really helping either! TCs themselves are effectively a sealed unit. They're welded together. Not a serviceable part as far as I am aware. But not normally something that fails. You can get wear in the vanes and under extreme conditions so I understand you can bend them. Hopefully UHU will confirm, but I'd think the bearing was external to the drum assembly itself.

 

[big-yin]

hi all, you may remember I cancelled my TC works whilst I tried to sort the starting and running issues. Well I think these are resolved full service done. Genuine fuel filter fitter. In tank filter changed.

So I a have been driving her for a few short trips to get some confidence back with her and today I got the shudder back. Just the once pulling into some lights, and when I think back most of the stalling/stopping issues I had previously would haven be when I would be changing down (if it were a manual) so time to bite the bullet and get it done.

I’ve been trying to get hold of overland cruisers since end of December, phone and email, sent them one last message today then will give up. I have one quote but welcome recommendations for companies to undertake the work. I live in North Leicestershire and will travel for a good service (up to 100miles).

Interesting, in tank filter only one I have left to do. I’ve had a look on roughtrax but couldn’t find it do you have a link to what you need up buying?

 

[StarCruiser]

Interesting, in tank filter only one I have left to do. I’ve had a look on roughtrax but couldn’t find it do you have a link to what you need up buying?

Just clean it and the tank/fuel if necessary.