What can happen when you hit the barrier

[fbnss]

I often think the extended health and safety and all that comes from it is interfering with the Darwin theory so that those that would have left the gene pool due to their own stupidity remain to be able to reproduce. It doesn’t take much to work out where this will lead.

"Management"

 

[Chas]

agree with the safety gear on a bike. I have a 1731 cc Big cruiser. full leather with kevlar armor on back and elbows. Mike biker jeans have leather inside where it matters, and proper strong boots.

Oh yes! Boots really matter, I had a bike accident where some stupid driver signalled left and then went right, I went under the car and my foot was crushed under the bikes engine, if it wasn't for my tough boots I would have lost a foot, I still bear the scars from crushing and burns through the leather from the exhaust pipe.

 

[Towpack]

Everyone should be made to spend time on a motorcycle before being granted a car licence IMO. No amount of 4 wheel instruction comes close to realising your vulnerability on the roads and developing not only your “road sense” but spacial awareness and taking observation to a new level when on 2 wheels. Leather and armour can save your skin but it can’t save your bones.

 

[BobMurphy]

I started riding motorcycles/scooters when I was 17 and grew up with some nasty underpowered and unreliable machinery. I also embraced the hobby and built a really nice reliable long-distance bike back in 1968-70 (a 1953 Ariel Square four). Today I have a pair of BMW 'Boxer twin' bikes (1988 R100GS & 2004 R1150GS Adventure), I usually ride in leather jeans & modern jacket with either a BMW System-5 or System-7 helmet. These bikes keep up with the traffic and have enough acceleration to get me out of trouble when needs must. They have decent lights, electric start, indicators etc. I have done a few long range foreign trips on the 1150 - its a great way to see the world.

But - I also have a 1958 Ariel 'VH' 500cc single that struggles to do 70, has no indicators/hazards, brake light on the rear brake only, improved brakes that are still below par by modern standards, kick start which needs a slow technique, a dodgy 60W dynamo, Magneto ignition (and an exhaust note that could waken the dead ).

Riding the 'VH' down the M6 I know what it is to feel vulnerable, particularly in the centre lane around Junctions 30/ 31 (Leeds/Halifax link to the M60/61). Hand signals are a challenge with a 'snap-shut' throttle.

I have learned over the years to ride defensively, wear bright clothing and be in the right place in plenty of time.

I try to stick to quiet back roads whenever possible, but that isn't always practical.

As a car driver, I drive like a Motorcyclist - including the 'life saver' quick look over the shoulder before changing lanes/direction.

In modern cars its easy to see the world as being 'out there' on the other side of the windows/your bubble where reality is what is on the inside.

Manufacturers and their Sales Teams are introducing ever more 'driver assist' features that isolate drivers from reality (self parking, lane maintenance, automatic braking when hazards/pedestrians are detected) so what is the answer ?

It would be good if all new drivers had to drive a 'Series' Landrover for a year - then they would know what reality is lol but the future will probably introduce increasing amounts of automation until the driver isn't required at all and just becomes a passenger. Hopefully I won't see it.

Bob.

 

[Chas]

the future will probably introduce increasing amounts of automation until the driver isn't required at all and just becomes a passenger. Hopefully I won't see it.

Bob.

I remember an uncle of mine had a Squareriel combination, lovely old bike.
the future will probably introduce blame shifting, it wasn't me it was the car.

 

[clivehorridge]

It does make people more risk complacent, but there is no denying that safety clothing on motorbikes and safety features in cars save lives and serious injuries.
I do think though that in our sanitized cotton wool society that as a society we seem to be losing our ability to assess risk for ourselves. I see it all the time in A&E where people have done the most staggeringly stupid things, and of course we all see it on YouTube and the like.

This was my point really (in my rambling sort of roundabout way) that once-upon-a-time your brain was instinctively planning ahead and analyzing risk, as a matter of course, more subconsciously IMO.

I see folks now overtaking on blind bends, or in convoy and other stupid antics, and simply dispair at what must be going on in their heads (or not as the case seems to be).

 

[clivehorridge]

I started riding motorcycles/scooters when I was 17 and grew up with some nasty underpowered and unreliable machinery. I also embraced the hobby and built a really nice reliable long-distance bike back in 1968-70 (a 1953 Ariel Square four). Today I have a pair of BMW 'Boxer twin' bikes (1988 R100GS & 2004 R1150GS Adventure), I usually ride in leather jeans & modern jacket with either a BMW System-5 or System-7 helmet. These bikes keep up with the traffic and have enough acceleration to get me out of trouble when needs must. They have decent lights, electric start, indicators etc. I have done a few long range foreign trips on the 1150 - its a great way to see the world.

But - I also have a 1958 Ariel 'VH' 500cc single that struggles to do 70, has no indicators/hazards, brake light on the rear brake only, improved brakes that are still below par by modern standards, kick start which needs a slow technique, a dodgy 60W dynamo, Magneto ignition (and an exhaust note that could waken the dead ).

Riding the 'VH' down the M6 I know what it is to feel vulnerable, particularly in the centre lane around Junctions 30/ 31 (Leeds/Halifax link to the M60/61). Hand signals are a challenge with a 'snap-shut' throttle.

I have learned over the years to ride defensively, wear bright clothing and be in the right place in plenty of time.

I try to stick to quiet back roads whenever possible, but that isn't always practical.

As a car driver, I drive like a Motorcyclist - including the 'life saver' quick look over the shoulder before changing lanes/direction.

In modern cars its easy to see the world as being 'out there' on the other side of the windows/your bubble where reality is what is on the inside.

Manufacturers and their Sales Teams are introducing ever more 'driver assist' features that isolate drivers from reality (self parking, lane maintenance, automatic braking when hazards/pedestrians are detected) so what is the answer ?

It would be good if all new drivers had to drive a 'Series' Landrover for a year - then they would know what reality is lol but the future will probably introduce increasing amounts of automation until the driver isn't required at all and just becomes a passenger. Hopefully I won't see it.

Bob.

Pre-60s bikes were something else. I had (and rebuilt) a 1947 BSA C10L 250cc single side-valve, we pulled out of the stream that ran through some open land at the back of my mother’s house.

It was amazing that we got it going, but it taught me about the function of a dynamo, the coil, ignition points and the condenser in a rudimentary way.

It had a single spring in the front girder forks (no damping) and I can’t remember properly, but it might have had a rigid frame at the back, relying only on the sprung seat for some comfort. It used to cruise at between 35 and 40 mph.

With drum brakes back and front, it’s a good job it didn’t go any faster.

 

[moggy1968]

I often think the extended health and safety and all that comes from it is interfering with the Darwin theory so that those that would have left the gene pool due to their own stupidity remain to be able to reproduce. It doesn’t take much to work out where this will lead.

I was doing a solar install on a house one time and got chatting to the owner.
Turned out he was a health and safety inspector!
He asked me a few questions like why don’t my guys were hi vis, why don’t they wear safety boots, why they don’t wear helmets on the roof. I explained the rationale.
He said that’s fine, you’ve thought it though, looked at the specific risks, and come up with a sound rationale, that’s all the legislation requires. What’s important is that you’ve thought it through rather than just having blanket rules that stop people thinking about what they are actually doing.

 

[Shayne]

I was late in life bothering to get a driving license because i had no interest in cars , bikes were fast and dangerous and thrilling whereas a car was just a rolling arm chair , dump trucks , tractors , digger , lorries etc were all useful for work but who needs a license for one of them i was young

Nick likes to take the mickey because i have hard suspension on a light truck which makes for a lively driving experience , i never have to look at the speedo in my 90 though .

The 80 on the other hand feels like a limo to me so i'm relaxed in my armchair toodling along watching the scenery when i remember to glance at the clock and realize i'm creeping up to 90mph again .

I'm more likely to survive an accident in the 80 but i'm much more likely to avoid one in the 90 because i'm forced to keep focus .

 

[moggy1968]

This was my point really (in my rambling sort of roundabout way) that once-upon-a-time your brain was instinctively planning ahead and analyzing risk, as a matter of course, more subconsciously IMO.

I see folks now overtaking on blind bends, or in convoy and other stupid antics, and simply dispair at what must be going on in their heads (or not as the case seems to be).

Although I see the worst of that in Eastern Europe where there isn’t much of a health and safety culture

 

[Chas]

.

I'm more likely to survive an accident in the 80 but i'm much more likely to avoid one in the 90 because i'm forced to keep focus .

Perhaps I should get a 90.

 

[garygiles1963]

Maybe he was trying to loop the loop?

 

[GeekOKent]

Oh man that looks like it's going to hurt, a lot

 

[StarCruiser]

Oh man that looks like it's going to hurt, a lot

Like I say, good job he was asleep.

 

[frank rabbets]

What a small world Bob. My friend has just restored a 500cc Arial Square four. I'll post a pic when I get one.

My first 'bike was a 16H Norton which I found dumped at the side of the road, I hid it well then reported it properly to the police and waited until it was mine. I went to look at it regularly, dreaming of the day.

I'm not sure the "barrier" in the video was in fact a concrete ramp for some other purpose. I assume the BMW was a modern one to get away with that.

I think a crash in an 80 would hurt as there is little crumple zone and the solid steel chassis would stop suddenly compared with the driver. Mine has single drivers airbag so I worry about my wife in the passenger seat when driving abroad.

The steering box on most old cars was mounted almost between the front wheels. The solid steel steering bar and tube ended at the centre of the steering wheel. Many people died after a collision. The box was one of the first parts of the car to hit an object and the driver often had fatal chest and lower rib cage injuries. My friends Ausin Healey had this design in the 60's, also my Daimler Dart. Both were quite quick cars. Well 100 mph anyway. lol. If you did not die from steering column impalement the leading edge of the roof would cut the top of your head off. I saw this once on a Mini which drove into the back of a stationery lorry., 2 dead. Our house was situated near a blind hill with just a dotted white line. 5 dead in 3 years until they put solid double whites, then a dual carriageway years later

 

[clivehorridge]

AFAIK, the 80 chassis does have thinner steel and section at the front compared with the main “ladder”, suggesting that to some extent, the front end from bumper to the front seat driver’s/ passenger’s feet would crumple more easily than the rest.

I’ve never seen an 80 in a crash-test video.

My 80 doesn’t have any airbags, but clearly the “old-fashioned” solid steering column danger has been improved with the angled double UJ style steering link shaft.

I ran into the back left corner of a Merc in my 80, at about 40 kph I would guess. Although I knew I’d hit him, it was barely a thump sitting where I was, I don’t even remember any snatch effect of my seatbelt.

Sadly, the rear end of the Merc moved forward about 40 cm, the boot floor looked like a corrugated iron roof sheet, the rear wing panel creased outward about 10 cm and the gutter line and roof was creased.

Anyway, I know which car I feel safer in, even if I am a bit misguided.

 

[moggy1968]

It was established a few years back that in accidents in 4x4 the level of trauma to the occupants tends to be higher because of the lack of adequate crumple zones. All that crumpling is absorbing energy and reducing speed meaning less deceleration on the body. That boot floor in the mercedes is energy ebing absorbed by the car rather than the occupants.
The myth of 4x4s being safer in accidents was just that, a myth. Things have improved over the last few years, so the Hilux for example now has a 5* rating.
One of the flaws in the safety rating system though is that they test cars against comparable vehicles, so the Toyota IQ has a 5* rating, but they tested it against something IQ sized, which isn't a fair reflection of what it might hit. It also means that the testing is inconsistent. I would far rather get rear ended in a hilux with 5 feet of metal behind the passenger compartment, and weighing almost 2 tons, than in an IQ with about 8 inches of metal before the passenger compartment. In my view they should be testing against a euro standard car, so something about BMW 3 series/ford mondeo size

 

[clivehorridge]

On that theme, here’s one that @StarCruiser will appreciate, it might give him some ideas one day for the cursed smart car...

I liked the end of this vid, concluding that notwithstanding how well the passenger compartment may appear to survive, the chances of a human being surviving 70-0 mph in less than 1 second is slim.

 

[moggy1968]

On that theme, here’s one that @StarCruiser will appreciate, it might give him some ideas one day for the cursed smart car...

I liked the end of this vid, concluding that notwithstanding how well the passenger compartment may appear to survive, the chances of a human being surviving 70-0 mph in less than 1 second is slim.

No linky

 

[StarCruiser]

I’ve seen it!

And No! After several years of sweat, toil, head scratching and wallet emptying the Cursed Smart Car is not going that way thank you very much.