Wholly electric cars

[frank rabbets]

Looks like electric cars are upon us. Well you lot anyway as I'll be buried or burned a long time before that. However I was just wondering if they are going to be more reliable glitch wise than cars we have at the present. At least there won't be as much engine management or emission management but I suppose there will still be air bag lights etc.

 

[Howmanygoes]

Will be great driving along, talking to tech support who can only advise, "have you tried turning it off and on again". Great except when your driving at cough 70mph, sorry 60mph now on the motorway.

I have a newish pc, iPad and phone none of them are stable. How long before it's the accident is users fault for not having the latest software...

Don't get me started on range...

 

[karl2000]

I think we'll just end up with a different set of problems, most of which won't be remotely feasible for the DIY'er. Might as well glue the bonnet down!

 

[chadr]

Will be great driving along, talking to tech support who can only advise, "have you tried turning it off and on again". Great except when your driving at cough 70mph, sorry 60mph now on the motorway.

I have a newish pc, iPad and phone none of them are stable. How long before it's the accident is users fault for not having the latest software...

Don't get me started on range...

I must admit I used to have a similar PoV but over the last few years, I've (slowly) come round to the idea.....whilst fully electric cars may not be the be all and end all of next generation motoring, they're here and they're here to stay at least for the short to medium term (next 10 years).

Pretty much every manufacturer has either got fully electric models out or in the process of launching one or more to add to their ranges. None of them would have invested in them, if they didn't believe that they would get a return on it. Electric and Hybrid cars are the only growing sectors in the motoring market in the UK currently - electric sales increased nearly 200%. Whilst both petrol and diesel sales are in decline and probably will be continue so with HMG's recent announcement re: ban on new petrol and diesel cars from 2030.

Whilst I personally have little experience of "driver aids" - my daily driver is a 23 year old Landcruiser for goodness sakes! I'm not totally against them . I think they can help in 99% of situations and since most RTA are caused by, one way or the other, driver error, if we can help eliminate some of this, then that can only be a good thing.

WRT to DIY fixes, how many people could repair a PC/laptop if a component failed, not that that happens very frequently. Similarly, how many people can repair a modern ICE car? Not many I would guess. I can imagine that software updates will become mandatory and electric cars will probably not activate unless you have the latest updates correctly installed. Obviously we on a Landcruiser enthusiast's forum and the membership demographic might be slightly different

Finally, range anxiety was one of the things that also worried me - but in reality when I think about my car usage, the majority of my travel was the commute to work (though not this year!) and daily mileage used to be around 35-40 miles. Easily doable in most electric cars. Even if I didn't charge it for a few days, an electric car would still cope. On the occasions that I do a longer journey (holidays etc.) then either I plan it to take in some charging stations or I take the Collie ( )

Obviously if your overlanding then a fully electric car might not be for you - but I don't think that's the market they're aimed at

 

[Howmanygoes]

Range....

Tesla 3 wltp 380miles, actual 239miles so 63% based on 100% charge. So as the advice and charge times are based on 80% due to the trickle charging this gives 191m /80% charge.

My daily commute is over 100miles return.

This means charging every night for more hours than Boris Johnson and the medical advisors have talk crap over the last year.

If I charge at a service station they charge a fortune, 10times home rates

Until the charge times are comparable to a trip to the fuel station and range is comparable to a mid sized diesel they are really only for a quick nip here and there with a structured and planned social life.

Drivers are becoming too relient on driver aids, I mean how fucking difficult is it to switch hi beams off..... there's a lever, I should pull that as somethings coming towards me or.... Shit what's this wet stuff falling from the sky that impairs my visibility of only there was a lever I could move to help... Oh wait there is, but let's put a fucking computer there instead so that can go wrong too.

 

[Shayne]

" but I don't think that's the market they're aimed at" you make it sound like people will be given a choice

The future i imagine fits quite well with the 1993 movie Demolition Man and if i remember correctly the general population lived in the sewers .

 

[Howmanygoes]

" but I don't think that's the market they're aimed at" you make it sound like people will be given a choice

The future i imagine fits quite well with the 1993 movie Demolition Man and if i remember correctly the general population lived in the sewers .

You remember correctly. Only ate at tacco bell, couldn't swear or eat salt and the 3 seashells still hasn't been resolved

 

[Shayne]

Of course 1993 was the olden days so it took a strong man to reset the balance , more recently and in tune with modern concepts a little girl called Katniss did it

 

[Towpack]

At least there won't be as much engine management or emission management but I suppose there will still be air bag lights etc.

No but they're already crammed with battery management/regeneration hardware & software which will almost certainly increase as the quest for greater efficiancy and range continues. We're only a step away from GPS controlled speed limiters, mileage loggers etc.. IMO. I watched a test on the new electric Porsche Taycan recently that has the ability to charge at a rate of 125Kw at one of the new fast charge points but it was being held back to 80Kw possibly due, the tester suspected, to two other cars charging at the same station. This point has been raised before but power generation will have to be stepped up significantly if all electric is to be the go-to solution for private car ownership.

 

[Howmanygoes]

We're only a step away from GPS controlled speed limiters, mileage loggers etc.. IMO.

Agreed and if the new road tax black box system gets pushed through we are all fucked.

 

[goodoldboy]

Climate change is real , as are the health problems caused by pollution in cities and urgent action is needed .But converting the ICE vehicles we have to electric will do very little to address these problems .In Europe all transport accounts for about 27% of emissions.The car manufactures are looking at a rinse and repeat of what happened with Diesel cars - firstly the big fix , better fuel economy , tax breaks to encourage buying the "new" technology and then when the reality bites a "solution" that the car owner pays for.Spain has given more than 1 billion in grants this year for new cars , a 4K handout if you buy electric but most folks . as Shayne said can't afford a new washing machine .Our first family vehicle was paid for by a building job where the missus was a labourer , and we got the bus to the site .At the end of the month we had enough saved to buy a van .The future is a car on the never never - never pay it off, never own it.

 

[Shayne]

Rent it from your boss who will also own your home and every place you can shop . I wonder if the woke crowd will wake up when you have to apply for permission to have children ?

 

[Iwan]

Where I'm working at the moment they have a gravel yard and an electric nissan. When they go off in it.. It sounds like the car's hand brake has let go!

They buy their electric off a company that states that it's power comes from sustainable resources.

How can they actually be sure that the power comes from a windmill or solar panel?

 

[Shayne]

The salesman that convinced them the Nissan was made out of wood told them so thats how

 

[Iwan]

Yeah and it's run buy the wind blowing lol!

 

[TonyP]

Well it's not long untill we can only buy electric cars, so we best get used to the idea. Not saying it's right, but I'll share my experience as a all electric car owner.

I have a Tesla model 3P as my company car, I had a choice and I was dammed if I was going to pay through my nose in BIK tax for driving a hybrid of diesel euro box. I go into the costs in a bit, but as a company car electric cars make a lot of sense RIGHT now.

The Tesla is a hoot, bloody quick, has the equivalent of something like 500bhp. Genuinely not much on the road that is going to beat this on the zero to 60mph race. Instant acceleration, not too bad handling. It's very modern and minimalistic all the goodies and some more. Driver aids for everything and I'm sure if you looked hard enough you would find the wipe my arse function.

Costs, well as it's a company car I did not have to pay the £60k price tag, no road tax, no insurance to me (but I understand they are group 50, so not cheap to insure). My daily commute in normal times is 75miles each way, so 150miles a day. I can just make it there and back, ignore the wltp stated range of 330miles... I've yet to get more than 170miles out of a 95% charge (ok,I'm not know to cruise at 60mph).

When I was doing the commute in the 120, that was a full tank 3 times a week, so about £200 per week... Cost in the Tesla on cheap rates of 5p per kWh, costs me about £4 to fully charge, so about £20 for the weekly commute. I know what I rather prefer.

Down sides... Range anxiety is a real thing, you have to plan any longer journeys, have to stop to charge just to get there and back, so costs you time...

Other Tesla owners and the Tesla forum is full of pious arses, thinking they are saving the world by driving one. Sure better than fumes from ICE but that power has to come from somewhere.

Build quality and finish is not what you would expect from a car that is in this price range. And yes they have problems and Tesla is not know for their customer service.

Two days after I got mine the 12v battery needed to be replaced, took them a month. They needed to replace it again 6months later. It also broke down on me on the way to Manchester needed the rear drive motor replaced... I'm sure I will have more issues with it before the three years are up... I'm hoping the competition catches up in the next few years and there are viable options.

Right now Tesla have the best charging network, which makes longer journeys easier. For this reason alone Tesla are probably the only viable option right now.

But ... I have a choice of a few cars on my drive, the Tesla, the 120 and a Audi S5 mapped to 480bhp... The S5 is my choice everytime I want to go for a drive, the Tesla will always just be the commute box, and the 120, sadly is for going to the tip.

For all you 80 loving folk out there, keep driving and loving them... The modern offering is so far from these, it's scary.

 

[Grimbo]

Rent it from your boss who will also own your home and every place you can shop . I wonder if the woke crowd will wake up when you have to apply for permission to have children ?

TBH..... That is precisely what is needed....the most polluting thing on the planet is humans , if we limit the amount of humans then the planet has a future , if we don't then leccy cars are just a stop gap .

The idiots who are pushing the green agenda seem to think we can put solar farms on prime farm land , plant trees on food producing land, build ever more houses on the same and then somehow feed an ever increasing world population from an ever decreasing amount of productive land that as the planet warms (man made or not )
is also becoming scarce as climatic change forces once productive areas to be rendered subsistence only.

Plant based diet is being pushed as an agenda but to feed the UK that requires ever more food to be flown or shipped from other parts of the world while all the time that is producing emissions that far exceed a few cow farts....

If the UK switched to be carbon neutral tomorrow it's net affect on the level of carbon will be swallowed up by China and other developing nations in a few years

Mean while they continue to send missions to the moon and potentially mars that produce more CO2 in every launch than every single Landcruiser produced ever will.

 

[Shayne]

Now theres an idea - if you want to save the planet rush immediately to a meeting 50ft due east of the white cliffs of Dover

 

[Towpack]

TBH..... That is precisely what is needed....the most polluting thing on the planet is humans , if we limit the amount of humans then the planet has a future , if we don't then leccy cars are just a stop gap .

That's it in a nutshell. The world's population is currently heading towards 8 billion. It took 2 million years to reach 1 billion and 200 years to reach 7. Personally, I'm not overly concerned about climate change, partly because I probably won't be here when the end comes but I really believe it's too late to do anything that will have any significant effect. The earth has always undergone cooling and warming cycles but human activity has acted as a catalyst, accelerating the process. The ongoing deforestation along with more and bigger forest fires, retreating polar ice caps, thawing and subsequent decomposing of thousands of square miles of permafrost releasing millions of tons more carbon and methane into the atmosphere all add to the heating effect. It's a vicious circle and looking like an unbreakable one. Dropping petrol and diesel (by the countries that are willing to) will have minimal effect IMO.

 

[Chas]

Mean while they continue to send missions to the moon and potentially mars that produce more CO2 in every launch than every single Landcruiser produced ever will.

OK, they say discovery of other planets that may be suitable for sustaining life could be the answer to our problems.

But who do you think would be the pioneers to go there? because it certainly won’t be you or me it would be our illustrious leaders at the front of the queue.