Air conditioning gone west

[Graham]

Hi All,

When I got back to my LC after 12 months, I found the air-con was blowing warm only.

So I gave Kwik-Fit a call, they said bring it along.
£49.99 sounded a good deal for a re-gas.

So following morning, arrived at KF, and they hooked up there machine, and sucked out what remaining gas was left.
After 10 minutes or so, the machine pulls an almost vacuum, and shuts the valves, and holds it for 5 minutes, to determine if there is a leak.

After 5 minutes, the vacuum was still 100%, indicating no leak.
So the new oil, and new gas are introduced, and 10 minutes later, he starts the engine, and the air con is sub zero cold

Next day I didn't try it, as it wasn't a warm day, and also I had forgotten about it, more to be honest.

So a few days later heading down through France, I decide it's "air-con" time.

And all I got was warm air

So, now I am confused, the 5 minute "hold" test proved no leak, but that was with the engine not running.
I feel it may have lost the gas again, when the engine is running?
Is that possible that when the engine is not running, there is no leak, but when the engine is running, the gas escapes via the compressor seals?

Gra.

 

[clivehorridge]

I have no idea Gra, but I have an equally confusing story, so maybe I can jump on the AC Gone West bandwagon.

Up to last Autumn, my AC worked fine. No use over the Winter, Summer comes, AC delivers warm air. Went to the workshop, machine connected, the guy says 50% fluid missing.

Drain, pressure test, no loss, refill, still warm air and he tells me the compressor isn't working. The electromagnetic clutch thingy was confirmed to be working, the idle up kicks in, but warm air. His answer was replace the compressor.

Looking at the pipe work, there is a suspect leak at a junction where there must be o ring seals inside. It's a little dark there and dust has gathered, some indication of an external leak.

After driving the car for a few days, it starts working, not 100% but working nevertheless.

I took the car back to him, he plugged up, again he said 50% fluid loss and no compressor. It's still working to some extent, but not right. Surely, no compressor would mean no cold air. I have some cold air, so I must have some compression.

Where should I go from here? A new compressor is some 800 Euros (I'm told) and that may not be the problem. Second hand stuff here is non existent unless I can adapt a compressor from a car or van from the scrappy, there's no 80s in the scrapyards here. Still I'm not convinced its my problem.

No way do I want to interfere with your thread, but your answer may be mine too, if we get any!

 

[chadr]

Hi All,
So I gave Kwik-Fit a call, they said bring it along....£49.99 sounded a good deal for a re-gas.

So following morning, arrived at KF, and they hooked up there machine, and sucked out what remaining gas was left.
After 10 minutes or so, the machine pulls an almost vacuum, and shuts the valves, and holds it for 5 minutes, to determine if there is a leak.

After 5 minutes, the vacuum was still 100%, indicating no leak.
So the new oil, and new gas are introduced, and 10 minutes later, he starts the engine, and the air con is sub zero cold

Next day I didn't try it, as it wasn't a warm day, and also I had forgotten about it, more to be honest.

So a few days later heading down through France, I decide it's "air-con" time.

And all I got was warm air
Gra.

SNAP!

I had the exact same thing with Kwik-Fit last year - took mine in for a re-gas, they checked the system and refilled and confirmed there wasn't a leak. Tried using the aircon a week or two later and it was barely below ambient temp. Tried over the last few days and I might as well stick my head out the window, because that would be cooler.

I'm got the number for a local "aircon expert" and I'll give him a ring and try and get it sorted before our trip to France in August.

The only thing to come out of that is that I'll never go to Kwik-fit for anything again - besides the aircon thing (which in fairness might be a fault with the car and not KF's), they botched the exhaust replacement on my wife's Yaris - can you believe it? I mean, how hard could that be !?! If it hadn't been in the middle of a freezing January, I would have done it myself.

 

[Dave]

In fairness to KF, they are only doing what the machine tells them. They have no real knowledge of a/c. The machine monitors the vacuum for 5 mins, but it is a very crude test for leaks.

The amount they pull out of the system, compared to what should be in there tells you there is a leak.

A system under vacuum has air at 14psi trying to get in, and this is checked over a 5 min period. A system with gas in it has min. 80 psi trying to get out over days or weeks.

 

[Graham]

I watched the whole process, step by step.
He (the machine) pulled the full vacuum, and then I held my breath for 5 minutes, hoping there would not be a leak.
So the 5 minutes passed, and still 100% vacuum, so the machine refills with gas.

It really was ice - ice - ice cold, seriously cold air from the face vents.

All I can think is compressor seals?

How do car / vehicle compressors work? do they have seals, or are they fully sealed like the fridge at home?

Gra.

 

[Gary Stockton]

The precise reason why you need to run the A/C every week - the gas and oil keep it all lubed up ;-) and prevent most of these issues. Cracked pipes is one thing - leaking o rings are a pain. Halfords sell replacements if you want to get it emptied and then replace the all then go for a fill.

BTW - KwikFit were useless with the dual-zone plus rear a/c on my LC5.... Absolutely clueless about getting it all to work properly.


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[Gary820]

Should leak test the system under pressure not vacuum. We use nitrogen @10 bar to leak test. The machine will pass the vac test but if a system comes in empty it gets nitrogen in first, if that doesn't show a leak usually all is ok.

Did they put a uv dye in when recharged it? If you've got a leak a uv light should show it up.

 

[warrenpfo]

Halfords sell replacements if you want to get it emptied and then replace the all then go for a fill.

Are these O-rings specific to AC or are they normal O-rings....do we need to be specific in asking when at Halfords?

 

[lc 120]

Gra,
If you do need a new compressor PM me as I have a new one...

 

[Trevor]

Does the light on the AC button flash or stay constant?

 

[Gary Stockton]

Are these O-rings specific to AC or are they normal O-rings....do we need to be specific in asking when at Halfords?

Hey Warren - they're proper A/C 'O' rings - a pale green neoprene I think (pale green anyway). You can get them elsewhere too - I'd do a search around really as I'm sure Halfords quality may not be brilliant


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[warrenpfo]

Cheers Gary

Whilst on the topic what does one use as lubricant when replacing the o-rings. Mineral oil??

 

[Gary Stockton]

Good question - would have thought silicone lube maybe?

Edit: found this site:

http://www.autoairconparts.co.uk/o-...s-when-installing-new-seals-part-41-0003.html


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[Gary820]

Local motor factors sometimes sell the o rings, can get a box with multiple sizes in.
Best to use the a/c oil to lube the seals.
How many seals you after? I've got a box somewhere ;-)

 

[Graham]

Gra,
If you do need a new compressor PM me as I have a new one...

.
PM sent


Gra.

 

[Crispin]

I had leaky o-rings on mine where the pipes joined just behind/next to the air filter. new o-rings were 50p for the two from Mr-T. to ten minutes to swap (including the vacuuming and recharging with dye)

 

[Graham]

Thanks Crispin, I will swap them out, if they are so cheap.

start with the cheapest things first I guess.

Gra.

 

[Crispin]

There will be a lot of swapping to do. The telltale sign for me was a wetness around the joint. Find that and swap that first. Dave, who helped me with it all, then put in a green dye so we could see further leaks. Get them to do that when you recharge it. Within a week mine had other green sections where there was a leak but would have been harder to see had it not been for the dye.

 

[ChrisH]

From memory of your 120 is the AC piping the same on the 150? Looking to replace some sections from a 150 on my LC5.

 

[Crispin]

Can't say I have looked but I doubt it. The pipework I fiddled with was contoured against the inside of the wheel arch - unlikely it would be the same on the 150. Best option is toyodiy and look at the diagrams (PM me if you cannot see the pictures)

But why replacing? Surely the 150 is still under warranty and it is Mr-T's problem?