Air conditioning issues with a 2006 LC5 - seemingly too mysterious to fix?

[mwhtc]

So 5 weeks ago I bought my Land Cruiser, and when I went to look at it the sales guy was honest enough to say that while it was advertised with working air conditioning, it's since broke. But he knew the problem well, and it'd be fixed before sale. I drove the car, he wasn't wrong! It was warm. But I liked the car enough and handed over more money than I had ever spent on a car in 8 years for it. When I picked it up, the air con worked and was lovely. He had replaced a "rear pipe" and the condenser. I could see the condenser as it looked brand new.

Over 2 weeks, I noticed that the air wasn't blowing cold. Called him on Bank Holiday Monday, he said fair enough hand the car back. Which I did.

Since then, I've not had the car back. His "air con man" had let him down apparently as he couldn't look at it, so his bodywork guy is now looking at it as there's a chap next door to him that does air con, so for the last 2 weeks it's been with him. The bodywork guy said it's leaking around the O rings near the condenser (or on the condenser). He's been to Toyota to get proper O rings - the sales guy said that these had been changed once before but not with proper Toyota parts - but it still seems to be leaking. It's now on it's 3rd person to look at it, as whoever the bodyshop guy has had to look at it doesn't know what's up with it. This was on Tuesday, I've text him for an update because i'll be honest, I have no idea where in the country the car is right now, so I'll update that when I get it.

It's unusual for me to be this beholden to third parties to sort out my own car, as I usually do all these things myself, so I'm trying to be patient especially as it's under the little bit of a warranty you get when you buy from a dealer, but at the same time I can't understand how it's taking nearly 4 weeks to diagnose an air conditioning issue on the vehicle. Someone I know on another forum eluded to the dealer wanting to force this in to a position where I just give the car back for a refund (the dealer, when I was annoyed that I had no communication from them about the state of work on the car, said "well i'll buy it back from you then". He has lost money on it I think), I don't buy in to that scenario. However, I personally think 3/4 weeks is more than enough time to get a problem like this resolved, and if he can't do it then I should be allowed to find someone who will and let them sort the money out between them.

So with that, I'd like to know where common, or even uncommon, points on the LC5's air con system that could be causing these issues? And if anyone knew of somewhere in the west midlands area who would know what they're doing with an air con system on this LC5 that I could bring it to instead?

 

[karl2000]

Theres a few mysterious systems on the 120, but I wouldn't expect the aircon to be one of them! I would have thought any decent aircon specialist would be fine sorting it out, but we'll see what the experts say.

Obviously a bodyshop guy isn't the right place to start with it - sounds like the dealer is taking the p*** to me.

 

[StarCruiser]

If it’s leaking, it’s leaking. It doesn’t need ‘Toyota’ O rings, just ones suitable for AC and cleaned up joints. If it’s leaking round the condenser joints then whoever changed the condenser didn’t do that job right.
Question…what was the car like underneath? Was it rust free, rusty or under sealed? 120s can suffer terribly with rust.
Reason for asking is if he wants to refund you and it’s bad underneath then it’s a golden opportunity but I am guessing it’s in good condition. Corrosion is also a reason the rear pipes go.
Just a thought.

It may be there’s more to this than meets the eye…or it may be straightforward. It may be it’s been put to the back of the queue as the original AC guy isn’t on it.
Any reviews on the dealer?

 

[mwhtc]

Theres a few mysterious systems on the 120, but I wouldn't expect the aircon to be one of them! I would have thought any decent aircon specialist would be fine sorting it out, but we'll see what the experts say.

Obviously a bodyshop guy isn't the right place to start with it - sounds like the dealer is taking the p*** to me.

I thought the same. I've done a fair few jobs on cars myself, except for air conditioning. So in my head it's a mystical thing but only because I've never worked on them. My problem is that I want to give people a chance, but I hate being in a position where I'm not in control of the car. But you're right, he is taking the p**s.

The reason it's with the bodyshop guy is that, the day I picked it up, his daughter in law was moving a car and bumped the front of the LC. I didn't even notice it, but he pointed it out and said the bodywork guy would sort it. So when I gave the car back, it was a week without hearing anything, but on the Friday I was told it was fixed but the body work guy had picked it up to fix the bumper, and would give it back to me. Fine I thought. A few days go by and I ask the bodywork guy when would I expect it back, and he tells me he's waiting on parts for the air conditioning - which was meant to be fixed. So I call the dealer, apparently his air con guy let him down, the bodywork guy said theres an air con shop next to him so he'd get it fixed there. This week then I text the bodywork guy again (as it's quicker to go through him than the dealer), he can't sort it so his friend is now looking at it. So that's why the bodywork guy has the car!

If it’s leaking, it’s leaking. It doesn’t need ‘Toyota’ O rings, just ones suitable for AC and cleaned up joints. If it’s leaking round the condenser joints then whoever changed the condenser didn’t do that job right.
Question…what was the car like underneath? Was it rust free, rusty or under sealed? 120s can suffer terribly with rust.
Reason for asking is if he wants to refund you and it’s bad underneath then it’s a golden opportunity but I am guessing it’s in good condition. Corrosion is also a reason the rear pipes go.
Just a thought.

It may be there’s more to this than meets the eye…or it may be straightforward. It may be it’s been put to the back of the queue as the original AC guy isn’t on it.
Any reviews on the dealer?

So the condition of the car underneath is fairly good. I went under it, only rust that looked out of place were the hangers for the side steps. They looked crusty. The chassis itself looked to be in good shape, no underseal at all other than what it came out of the factory. I think I saw one spot on the body itself, nothing you could put a hole through. At the front of the chassis ladder it looked a little crusty, but again a wirebrush and vactan sunday would sort it. It's a straight old bus really.

I think though it has cost him money, he knocked £500 off the price of it when I got it, so I don't know if he's dragging his heels in order for me to throw it back to him, for him to then re-sell it fixed but for a higher price. That's conjecture though.

The reviews of the dealer are mainly positive from what I can see. I've found one moaning about a similar situation, although they left it for 9 weeks and had nothing done. But the rest seems fairly positive.

I've had nothing back from the bodywork guy since he said he'd call the 3rd(!) guy to look at this car, which was about lunchtime yesterday. I'm popping down to see it and just getting it back from them today fixed or not. Like I said, I've never touched the air con on any car I've had so I'm not up to speed with the systems and what can go wrong etc. But I'm confident enough now to know from yourselves and a few others I've asked that the p**s is being taken with this!

 

[laszlo szucs]

i had a leak on my AC. we couldn't figure out.. got new condenser, still problem. than from ebay "AC stop leak" £20

never a problem since

 

[karl2000]

Good luck mwhtc. I know how you feel, I hate garages that keep hold of your car and dont bother updating you.

One place had my LC for 4 months (with no work being done) before I finally went and got it back.

 

[StarCruiser]

By the sound of it underneath it’s a rare truck worth keeping. If you can get it back, it’s worth sorting the AC issue yourself with the help of a one man band fridge engineer. Ask a few of the local takeaways/pubs/restaurants/cafes who they use. You’ll start to build a picture of who to call.
The gas is stupid expensive now. It doubled in price a year or two back but the system doesn’t hold much. Often they will add a green dye to show up any leaks but you can often see an oil ‘creep’ from a joint. A leak checker is a useful tool in the right hands.

 

[mwhtc]

Thanks for the replies. You're quite right @StarCruiser, it's fairly solid. Some spots of rust sure but nothing major, not like the rotten RAV4 I spent too long trying to rescue!

I've just come back from the bodywork lad, who's a nice enough lad. Obviously frig all to do with this and is stuck in the middle, and I made it clear that I'm only speaking with him because the dealer's next to useless with the communication.

It's now with his mate, and from here on in this is more or less in the order of what I was told.

His mate noticed, or identified, steam. Can't remember at what end (exhaust or engine), but he suspected head gasket failure. Did a test, head gasket is fine. Further diagnosis has apparently pin pointed that the EGR valve cooler is kaput and needs a replacement. You guys will know more about this than I do, but apparently it's a Toyota only part, so there's ordering and fitting all that bullshine. The mate won't touch the air con if there's something duff behind it apparently. Fair enough I suppose.

So that's where I'm at now with it.

 

[mwhtc]

Quick(ish) update.

Finally(!) got my LandCruiser back yesterday. Air conditioning fixed, EGR cooler fixed, it's blowing cold and seems to be alright now. Good stuff.

Except I found an invoice in the car from Toyota regarding O rings. They were bought last week, roughly the same time as the EGR cooler. So it's effectively been sat there for 3 weeks doing frig all. Not entirely pleased about that, but it's working now and if it goes again I'll just sort it myself.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Tractionman]

Great news mate, a bit of a bummer with it sitting there doing nothing for a few weeks, but all done, unlike the twat who had Karl2000 lc.

 

[mwhtc]

Great news mate, a bit of a bummer with it sitting there doing nothing for a few weeks, but all done, unlike the twat who had Karl2000 lc.

What happened there?

 

[karl2000]

What happened there?

I had a fault with the cruise control that nobody could fix. One garage had it for almost 6 months and did nothing at all !

 

[mwhtc]

I had a fault with the cruise control that nobody could fix. One garage had it for almost 6 months and did nothing at all !

Well I feel lucky I was only kept waiting a month for an O ring then!

 

[RichC4]

If possible get a courtesy car while they have yours. Helps focus the attention as you're costing them then.

 

[mwhtc]

I'll remember that for next time, cheers!

 

[mwhtc]

I thought I'd update this just for completeness.

The air con is blowing warm again. Not at all happy, but I haven't gone near the phone to the jackass I bought it from. I can't afford to be without the car now, and really the weather is (meant to be) cooling down. So it can wait now until March for me to sort it out.

 

[Grimbo]

You have a leak somewhere in the AC system......

 

[mwhtc]

You have a leak somewhere in the AC system......

I know. I know the condenser is meant to be brand new, and the leaks were meant to do with O rings connecting to that. Obviously total bullshine from the jackass I got it from, which is making me more annoyed that I let the clown keep it for a month for frig all reason.

I'm just going to look under it, make sure that there has been a new rear pipe fitted, and take it from there. Get a second opinion on the leaks (as in get someone to test it for leaks), replace what needs to be replaced myself and do it that way.

 

[Grimbo]

A decent company would as a matter of course put a UV dye in the system so detection of the leak should be fairly straight forward....
A/C is simple ....there is no mystery or witchcraft going on..... it's still an R143 system at a guess ....
Maybe try your local Tractor dealer.... they are well used to fault finding on much more complex systems and in the quiet winter months maybe pleased of the work .