Anyone adding

[Andrew Prince]

Hey Andrew - if you tell the DVLA you run your 80 with 2-stroke maybe they'll re-classify it as a motor-bike for you - no more LEZ worries then?

Funny guy Actually Toyota GB look like they're coming to the party - will update the thread when I have some concrete news next week

i know Karl has done a lot of miles on waste veg, and the only issues hes had are having to replace the fuel pump occasionally.

Karl might have a source of relatively cheap IPs but for most of us, the cost of replacing the IP occasionally way outweighs any fuel saving that WVO might offer

 

[Ben]

HI Ben

Where are you getting the new veg oil at 90p please?

THank you

it varies asda was the cheapest place a few weeks/month ago and that was 90p. theyve put there prices up again, so not sure of the cheapest atm.

my mate went to macro's last week and theyd got a pallet load of veg oil (the expensive stuff normally £25 for 20litres) and one of the drums had leaked. so they were selling it off at £15 a drum. so my mate bought the lot 800litres of the higher quality veg oil!

hes said i can but 5 drums off him, which will keep me going for a while. i think hes trying to recover some of his £600.

[quote="Gary Stockton":5vs05m3z]Hey Andrew - if you tell the DVLA you run your 80 with 2-stroke maybe they'll re-classify it as a motor-bike for you - no more LEZ worries then?

Funny guy Actually Toyota GB look like they're coming to the party - will update the thread when I have some concrete news next week

i know Karl has done a lot of miles on waste veg, and the only issues hes had are having to replace the fuel pump occasionally.

Karl might have a source of relatively cheap IPs but for most of us, the cost of replacing the IP occasionally way outweighs any fuel saving that WVO might offer [/quote:5vs05m3z]

you may think that, but when you consider how many thousands of miles he does on veg, before the 100,000+ miles fuel pump packs up, and the saving hes made because the waste veg oil is only costing him 40ish p per litre. the saving over not running on derv far out weights the cost of a new pump.

would be interesting to see how long a new pump would last on wvo as opposed to a 100,000+ miles one.

 

[frank rabbets]

I've just emailed Shell UK with a few questions.

I note that googling "diesel pump wear ; diesel lubrication" etc nearly always leads you to a site selling additives. I don't like additives unless recommended by the engine maker. Remember Redex? Cost a fortune and probably did nothing.

Andrew; Presumably the makers of the fuel or their regulatory body must know the lubrication qualities of their fuels and that would cover older engine pumps. They are only metal after all and their tests will cover metal wear.

As a Placebo I shall now be putting one drop of diesel in my coffee and adding one asprin per tank of diesel. Or shall I put coffee in my diesel? Very confusing.

I don't think this thread will die quickly.

Frank

 

[frank rabbets]

Re; Replacement pumps. They don't make them to last these days ?!

Frank

 

[Andrew Prince]

Andrew; Presumably the makers of the fuel or their regulatory body must know the lubrication qualities of their fuels and that would cover older engine pumps. They are only metal after all and their tests will cover metal wear.

Yes and no - the point I was trying to make is that the fuel-makers are designing their formulation to meet the regulations and not to perfectly replicate the lubricity of "old" style diesel. In their favour, it's pretty much impossible for an individual to successfully affix blame to any single fuel-maker if his old style IP dies. So not much risk for the fuel-maker, especially if he can prove that he met the minimum spec. The real question is whether the minimum spec includes the right fuel characteristics that effect longevity. Obviously they've reached a happy medium where the authorities and fuel-makers don't have a million furious customers with broken IPs. But are IPs wearing out at 150,000? miles today versus the 300,000? miles they were capable of 15 years ago? Is there any way of scientifically proving this? If so and if this is due to different (poorer?) diesel lubricity, does 2stroke make the difference?

Remember that fuel formulations are a trade-off of quality versus cost - look at premium diesel versus regular. Thinking about that, it may be cheaper to run on premium diesel rather than adding 500ml of 2stroke - haven't done the maths. The premium diesel generally gives better mpg because of the higher cetane rating AND it apparently has superior lubricity to regular diesel. Maybe that's the answer

 

[Chris]

Not an expert on injectors noooo waay, but having swapped out several sets now and been at the testers when they went on to the rig to be checked, I can say that generally the 80 will run on knackered injectors quite happily and doesn't always improve noticeably on perfect ones. Sorry Mr T but it's a clunker of an engine designed to run on snake bile and monkey's f****y batter.

Injectors wear due to the passage of high pressure fuel through them. They can also block of crud gets through, but 'my man's' view at the injector place is that cleaner etc is hogwash. They don't gum up, they wear out and the most important bits, inside the injector body, not the tips are where problems are more critical. Possibly lubricating these springs and shims in there is more important than the tips. I have had a truck running perfectly other then lost of white fume, pulled the injectors, have them tested and saw fuel pour out of them like a punctured hose pipe. I had them re tipped and the fume went. There was not other noticeable benefit really. Recently I swapped mine again in this engine. The tips were perfect (I had them tested that week) and if anything my truck seems down on power. Probably sue to the fact that not so much fuel is pouring into the cylinders. I pulled Matt's 'jectors, had them tested and they were appalling. Put in the good ones and does it run that much better? Not according to Matt but it doesn't smoke any more.

So verdict - don't waste money on injector cleaner. They aren't blocked. If it's running leave it be unless you get 6 mpg.

As for lubing the pump etc, well I'd get a pusher pump to take the strain off the old lift pump for sure, mine certainly seems happier not to have to be sucking so hard. Will adding 2 stroke help or harm? I'm not the expert on that. But watching with interest. Fit an intercooler that's my solution to it all. Sod the science, give it some whoaaah!

Chris

 

[Towpack]

I usually use either Castrol Power1 or Actevo 2 stroke at @ 200:1. I personally wouldn't use unrefined veg oil due to the glycerine content which has been shown to gum up rings/injectors over time. IMO modern 2 stroke oils are perfect for the job, good lubrication and virtually deposit and smoke free.

you say unrefined veg oil. do you mean waste veg oil?

By unrefined I mean either used or new veg oil straight off the shelf and straight in your tank. The refining process to turn said oil into bio diesel takes out the glycerine. Everyone has there own thoughts on this but, personally, I wouldn't touch it.

You can't argue with the fact that 2 stroke oil is formulated to both lubricate AND be burnt so it certainly will not harm the IP or the top end of the engine. I'm just one of the many convinced of it's benefits so I use it and has already been said it's cheap and worth it if only for the peace-of-mind factor.

 

[Chris]

So does the glycerol not come from that which is fried IN the oil. I was lead to understand that this was the fatty lipids or whatever from the pizzas and sausages that you Sheffelders like to eat. The kebab of course being invented in Derbyshite in 1752. That about ten to six for the hard of learning.

Chris

 

[frank rabbets]

Chris
My 24 valve is doing 27 mpg at 130,000 miles compared with 29 mpg at 30,000 miles. Do you think injector condition affects fuel consumption. Or if leaking you get more power and subconsciously ease of accordingly. I agree re; injector cleaner.

I tried BP ultimate diesel. The only thing Ultimate about it was the price; not more power and less consumption.

Frank

 

[chriscolleman]

My thinking about the injector cleaner is more in the lines of fuel upgrader.

I've had injector/injection pump cleaner loosen gunk in the fuel tank and clog up the fuel filter.
Mostly on diesels standing for a long time with old fuel in them.
It probably cleans something at a higher rate than fresh fuel flowing through the lines.

Injectors wear from use and they can provide some added mpg when new. But if the engine is running nicely I regard the refurbished injectors as the cherry on the cake. Not really necessary, but a job well done.

That BP Ultimate does take some beating. But if you're allready running decent fuel, then it will probably be percentages.

My usual is Total Excellium.

 

[Beau]

From fuel experiences with my 90 series colorado, I would say that there is a very very very small chance of getting the injectors block.

On most of these cruiser, it is filtered in the tank, then the main fuel filter, and on my 90 series there are 2 strainers/filters which are very fine. I believe there is also another one which is inside the actual pump but wont be able to get to it without taking it apart.

Also I have had a time where I thought I had a blockage in the line somewhere, threw in some redex and it got worse. This is because the redex cleaned out rubbish and then it got blocked further up. From what I have read diesel at the pump is Bio-diesel and contains more lubrication than previously which means it will flush through the system through.

Chris, I though about putting a pump in between my pump and the filter but if the fuel pump is on its way out then why bother.... I have no experience with the 80 series fuel pumps but I would think there would be some sort of filter/strainer within the pump that may be accessible from outside (without removing the actual thing) . This may be worth having a look at as you will find the truck will run like brand new, more smoother on idle, more power and surprisingly slightly better fuel economy.

 

[Chris]

Beau, been there done that. This is a different issue nothing to do with anything being blocked I can assure you. I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of fitting a pusher pump at the tank if all I needed to do was change a filter or unblock the strainer in the tank. The pump on the 80 is a lift pump and it has to drag fuel all the way from the tank to the IP. These are nearly 20 year old pumps. When you go vertical in one of these vehicles, the fuel tank is several meters below the engine. The lift pump is now trying to pull fuel all that height. and it struggles. Fitting a pusher means that the IP now only has to deliver fuel to the injectors and not pull it from the tank.

As I said, nothing to do with blockages. The Colorado doesn't have a fuel pump in the tank either. The filters in the tank are not filters, they are strainers to take out leave and dead cats. Not much more than that. There are also filters in the actual injectors themselves. The main filer element in the system is the main component. Use good filters and all should be fine. But there is a black algae that grows in diesel tanks and that can clog the dead cat strainer. This does need the occasional clean out.

Chris

 

[joinerman]

Like this

 

[Chris]

Hmm, yes only black. Do you know what that looks like? It looks like a sticker that has been put on the inside of the tank which has dissolved. I say that from having the experience on a K... Kee.... Oh God this is hard to say, Keee yy.


KIA OK it was a KIA Is that OK with everyone? Yes I bought KIA with my own money.

Cry baby Chris

There will be a prize for the 7th person to spot the relevance of 7mm-08

Actually, in truth it was a nice car. Fully loaded, hip hop gear change, 2.5 intercooler, traction thingy slippery whatsit. Leather. But what spoiled it were the dealers we F***** morons. I mean so dense you could have laid them as hardwood flooring. In the end I made them drive into a muddy field to show them that the front wheels did NOT go round. And that I couldn't put it in 4wd as it was permanent 4 wd. Stuck some BFG ATs on it and it was pretty good as a car with capability.

 

[joinerman]

Yeh spot on Chris, this was out of a Kia.


Seen very similar gunge out of other tanks but no piccies though.

 

[tim falce]

My Discovery used to get a blocked tank strainer in the tank every 5 years or so. The engine would cut when the fuel level got too low, it has a small collector pot at the pick up with a hole half way up. The collector is used when the car is at extreme angles so when the tank has a few gallons in it was fine. When it blocked it was like a clear gel, the problem was that the strainer has a one way valve that is very fragile and invariably breaks if you try and clean it.

 

[chriscolleman]

You actually bought a KIA???

One of those limited slip differentials not engaging front wheel drive?

 

[Andrew Prince]

Between the confessions of owning a Kia and a discovery, this has turned into quite the agony aunt thread Did 2stroke make a difference to either of those vehicles?

 

[Chris]

I didn't know that was out of a Kia - I had presumed it was a Cruiser! Well there you go then.

Yes I bought a Kia and all because it said 36 mpg. Best I ever got was 24.

Turned out that the magnetic clutch in the T box had gone. Whole thing needed replacing at £2500. Warranty - oh yes. And 5 new wheels, yep and got to keep the old ones plus the tyres. The list goes on. I never paid for a service or parts or anything. Why? I told you, the dealers were complete idiots.

Chris

 

[chriscolleman]

Happy newyearsday everyone!!

Funny thing about the 2-stroke oil.
I actually had a guy in lately who ran it instead of motoroil in his ride-on mower.
Used the full mineral stuff. Didn't know better and kept topping up the oil level.

Has been doing it for 18 years, engine ran fine no problems.
Looked into the oilsump after we drained it with one of those stethoscope things.
Couldn't see anything weird.

So we filled it up with 2-stroke again and sold him the additional bottle to keep topping up for another 18 years????

It certainly doesn't hurt engines!