Bizarre clonk / jolt from the front end of Fiery!!!

[Bounder]

Have a look at your VIN plate, the bottom row has 4 groups of numbers.
The 3rd group will say which diff you have on the rear. 4.300 or 4.100 and if its LSD, manual or open
It won't tell you the front diff ratio but it has to be the same as the rear if its a permanent 4wd.
Thats why they have a sticker on the front diff to show what ratio it is.
I bet yours says A02B if you have an R17 front sticker.

diff codes
4.100 diff no LSD possibly manual lock A01B
4.300 Diff no LSD possibly manual lock A02B
4.300 Diff with LSD A02A
4.100 Diff with LSD A01A

 

[sae70]

That's great info Thank you

So my chassis number is K--F---A02B----0F

Looks as though my R17 (4.300) Diff is a match to the rear Diff ratio according to the Vin plate then

It would be nice to confirm this visually though Anyone know the correct technique for this

 

[Chris]

My shortie was the same as yours Steve and it was 4.3. I blew mine to bits at Lincomb.

I am guessing here and we really need one of our friendly gurus, but I'd imagine that it would involve something like sticking it in neutral on the T box, jacking one rear wheel off the ground, marking a fixed point and then turn the wheel once and count the revs of the prop. Divide one into the other.

Close?

It was easy for me, I just counted the teeth. Then doubled it to account for the half that were still sitting in the diff casing

Chris

 

[Bounder]

The only 90's that came with the 4.100 were either Japanese imports with an Auto or the TX/GL versions that came with 215-80 section tyres and no body flares (Commercials)
If your front diff says R17 then it is 4.300.
R16 diffs are a lot rarer, as I found out when I went looking for one.
Your VIN says 4.300 rear and its very unlikely that someone changed it for anything else, if they did they would have to have changed the front as being permanent 4wd there would have been a sudden and expensive noise the first time anyone drove down the road! You can't have an R17 4.300 front diff and a 4.100 rear. The vehicle wouldn't run.

 

[BobMurphy]

I'd imagine that it would involve something like sticking it in neutral on the T box, jacking one rear wheel off the ground, marking a fixed point and then turn the wheel once and count the revs of the prop. Divide one into the other.

Close?

Chris

Yes . . . But no cigar

Gearbox (or transfer box) in neutral.

Handbrake off.

Jack one rear wheel.

Mark the propshaft and the raised wheel.

Rotate the wheel a set number of turns (20 is good).

Divide the number of turns on the propshaft by HALF the number of turns on the wheel (i.e. 10).

That gives the rear diff ratio.

You have to divide the wheel rotation by two because only one wheel is turning and you are running the diff pinions around the stationary half shaft on the other (fixed) wheel.

The differential splits the load so the sum of the two wheel rotations is always twice the Crownwheel rotations.

If both rear wheels were off the ground and the rear diff locker was engaged, both wheels would turn together, the propshaft would turn faster and you would divide the propshaft rotations by the actual number of wheel rotations (because you have two of them going round).

Confused

Differentials Impossible to explain in words and difficult to explain with pictures because their action varies depending on where the load is applied.

I hope this helps.

Bob.

 

[Chris]

Well I was close.

Chris

 

[sae70]

OK I've been offered a number of diffs now, but one that has caught my attention is one being offered to me by a breakers in Rainham about an hour away from me at a fair price. But they can't confirm if it's an R17 due to it being at the bottom of a pile of three & flat on its chassis, so no way of seeing the label until they can make time to get it out from under the pile & this may not be till next week So I says 'what's the chassis number & I'll be able to tell from this' off he goes & comes back saying 'sorry m8 its come to us as a breaker, so all of the chassis numbers have been removed If it were a Colorado I'd probably take a punt on it, but it's a 98 LWB Auto Prado & this leaves me in a bit of a quandery

What do you guys think It there any other way I can confirm the diff in this vehicle Maybe via the registration

 

[Chris]

Tough one. Looking at the serials at the top of the page, it's not going to be easy to tell I don't think. Prados obviously had no rear locker and an LSD.

Big and Green has that vehicle, we can have a look and see if there are any clues on his, but it's no guarantee. Will they not do a sale or return on it? They presumably have to take it off at some point.


Chris

 

[Bounder]

You can only see what it is once you have it out.
If there is no VIN then theres not much you can do until you can physically inspect it.
When I was searching around, I found one in a garage in Galway, he assured me it was an R16.
rang a mate in Galway to have a look and pick it up if necessary, he checked and saw R17 on it and rang me back to check.
Some scrappers are unscrupulous like that.
edit:Looking it up most early JDM stuff with the 1KZTE and Auto is 4.100
If you were really stuck, you could take the diff out, and open it.
Take the ring gear off and reassemble it.
It would keep you going until you could track down an R17 diff.
The driveshafts would be held securely in place and you would probably get some good MPG figures.

 

[sae70]

Well finally talked him into picking the Collie up for a proper look & in big letters it says R57

Good job I didn't go with what he was saying & just buy the thing R57 Whatever that is, its not an R17

 

[Bounder]

I don't know enough about those R56 and 57 diffs, I just researched the R16-17 thing when mine was busted.
Maybe they are the same internally but you would want to be very sure what they were.
AFAIK they were only used on later model 90 series with the D4D engine but if a 98 Prado had one?....
Thats odd.

 

[sae70]

Same as R17 but LSD maybe

 

[sae70]

I've spent quite some time trawling the net now looking for a definitive list of Collorado/Prado front diff types & codes, but to no avail

Turns out from what I'm reading is that there are many R&P's that will fit the Collie IFS front diff set up from across the Toyota stable

I've also trawled up (mainly from Aus) that the early Collie front diff carriers were 2 pin & very susceptible to premature failure Something that they sorted by installing a 4 pin carrier into later trucks Beyond this though I have no further info

What we need is a friendly Toyota main dealers m8 to spend some time having a chat with his main dealer m8 collating a definitive list of chassis codes, axle codes, ratios & options that we can post as a sticky. This is one of the most talked about enigmas on Yota forums world wide I'm slowly discovering

Do we know anyone for this job

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

What we need is to see some pictures of the internals of the one you've got now

 

[Chris]

Understand what you are saying Steve - but there isn't any doubt as to what is in your front diff. Is there? What you really need to know is what is the difference / compatibility between between them. You need an R17. End of story, but the R&P from and F54.87B might be the same. But as you want to swap the whole thing out then, it doesn't really matter. Just get an R17. Have you tried using Toyo to get the part number and then type the part number back in to see which vehicles it comes back with? It might give some options.

Then Jon can play with your old one!


Chris

 

[Chris]

Steve, whaddya know - it works. They actually have a new reverse search app. I typed in the ring and pinion set part number from your vehicle details into the search and it will look for all those with it fitted.

You can filter by country too.

C

 

[sae70]

What we need is to see some pictures of the internals of the one you've got now

All in good time Jon

Understand what you are saying Steve - but there isn't any doubt as to what is in your front diff. Is there? What you really need to know is what is the difference / compatibility between between them. You need an R17. End of story, but the R&P from and F54.87B might be the same. But as you want to swap the whole thing out then, it doesn't really matter. Just get an R17. Have you tried using Toyo to get the part number and then type the part number back in to see which vehicles it comes back with? It might give some options.

OH no of course an R17 front diff & axle housing will sort me out but if there was the opportunity to get a stronger 4 pin 4.3-1 diff from a later Cruiser or Hilux or 4Runner that would fit then this would be a great, but for the knowledge that seems to be vastly missing on the subject for the 90 series & 3rd gen Hilux

I like the sound of the Toyo search thing, I did have a look on it but I had no idea you could could use it in the way you suggest Right off to Toyo

 

[sae70]

That's a great thing

Not sure how to use it mind

This seems to be the result for a 4.3 R&P but the 4.1 also lists 4Runners

Part 41201-80117 (FINAL GEAR KIT, DIFFERENTIAL, FRONT) was found on the following models:

Date range Model Frames/Options Found in diagram
04/1996-08/2002 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER KDJ9*,KZJ9*,VZJ9* 43-01: FRONT AXLE HOUSING & DIFFERENTIAL

Model Dates: Matching Models: Model Options: Links to diagrams:
06/1999-08/2002 KZJ90L-GJMNTW EUR, LHD, 1KZTE, MTM, 3D
06/1999-07/2000 KZJ90R-GJMNTW EUR, RHD, 1KZTE, MTM, 3D
06/1999-08/2002 KZJ95L-GKMNTW EUR, LHD, 1KZTE, MTM, 5D
06/1999-08/2002 KZJ95R-GKMNTW EUR, RHD, 1KZTE, MTM, 5D
06/1999-08/2002 VZJ90L-GJMNKW EUR, LHD, 5VZFE, MTM, 3D
06/1999-08/2002 VZJ95L-GKMNKW EUR, LHD, 5VZFE, MTM, 5D

Started looking to see when they went from 2 pin to 4 pin diffs & then realized that I'm not certain what I'm looking @

Not found any mention of the R16, R17, R56 & R57 axle types & how that relates to the internals

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

A gear kit is just the gears, so you'd still have to strip and rebuild yours, and maybe find out you didn't need the gears after all You need a part no. for the whole diff assembly and check that for a match with other vehicles.

 

[sae70]

Sorry Yep I did do that & many other searches including to see if the schematic changed from 98MY up to 02MY & that's when I realized I didn't really understand what I was looking for

£1918.00 for a complete one from Yota

Part 41110?60670 (CARRIER ASSY, DIFFERENTIAL, FRONT) was found on the following models:

Date range Model Frames/Options Found in diagram
04/1996-08/2002 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER KDJ9*,KZJ9*,VZJ9* 43-01: FRONT AXLE HOUSING & DIFFERENTIAL
Model Dates: Matching Models: Model Options: Links to diagrams:
06/1999-08/2002 KZJ90L-GJMNTW EUR, LHD, 1KZTE, MTM, 3D 43-01
06/1999-07/2000 KZJ90R-GJMNTW EUR, RHD, 1KZTE, MTM, 3D 43-01
06/1999-08/2002 KZJ95L-GKMNTW EUR, LHD, 1KZTE, MTM, 5D 43-01
06/1999-08/2002 KZJ95R-GKMNTW EUR, RHD, 1KZTE, MTM, 5D 43-01