Focke Wulf 190 V Spitfire

[moggy1968]

Who could forget this madness!!

 

[moggy1968]

 

[jibberjabber]

There’s a bloke near us with a Harley that sounds like that 190. Right noisy b*****d it is.

Nothing wrong with Harley's

 

[jibberjabber]

I remember people deriding the harrier because of its poor speed, but they ate their words when in the falklands it demonstrated far superior dog fighting skills when manoeuvrability counts for more than speed.

The Harrier may have had 'poor speed' but it could stop mid air or fly very slow, the pursuer had to fly past or risk stalling, then the skillful Harrier pilot could fire an 'air to air' up the Argies arse.

 

[jibberjabber]

The problem with the European theatre spitfires was they were very under gunned relative to the German aircraft, the .303 guns it was fitted with being nowhere near enough. I forget what the Germans had, possibly 30mm.
We were doing a pickup from Biggin hill a few weeks back and the spitfires were out. It must have been quite something to have seen all that going on over your head as a kid.

It was the Hawker Hurricane that was the real star of the fighter war, it was very underrated but stot down more enemy aircraft than the Spit, the Hurricane was even a 'Tank Buster' in the 'Noth African' campaign, and was far,far easier to repair being mostly made of wood, as opposied to the streesed metal of the Spit.

ALSO.

Credit to.
Riley Rosell, B.A Computer Science, Bethel University (2019)

depends on the model. There were 5 main setups used overall, usually denoted these days with a lowercase letter after the Mk of the aircraft, but it actually stood for the wing type used, since each of the 4 could carry different guns (that’s not an oversight, I’ll get there in a moment):

A type: 8 x .303 Browning Light Machine gun. decent firepower when the first Mk’s were being made, but it was quickly succeeded by other armament setups later in the war, since it became clear that the Rifle caliber guns alone would not be sufficient

B type: the 4 innermost Brownings were swapped out for 20mm Hispanos (the first planes equipped, the Mk Ib and IIb, used the Hispano Mk I, but later variants used the mk II). The most popular arrangment overall. It should be noted that the Ib didn’t really see much use, as the very early attempts at getting the Hispanos to work reliably were… quirky.

C type: Universal wing. This could carry any of the above, as well as an armament of 4 x 20mm Hispano autocannons. The 4 cannon setup, while harder hitting, was uncommon, as the armament was rather heavy. There’s another gun setup the C wing could carry that I’ll get to later

D type: unarmed. The space that would have been used for guns instead carried additional fuel tanks. This was a photo reconnaissance spitfire, so it needed additional range.

E type: unnoficial designation for the 5th armament setup possible (excluding some field modifications of the type C armament being reduced to just 2 of the cannons instead of 4): 2 x 20mm Hispano Mk II, and 2 x 12.7mm Browning M2 Heavy Machine Gun. This was the popular choice for the last year and a half of the war, since it wasn’t that much heavier than the type B armament, but had a nice increase in burst mass, as well as being better at punching through armor plates and engine blocks.

The war era spits generally didn't carry any external ordnance, although some could carry bombs if they must.

 

[moggy1968]

The Harrier may have had 'poor speed' but it could stop mid air of fly very slow, the pursuer had to fly past or risk stalling, then the skillful Harrier pilot could fire an 'air to air' up the Argies arse.

Indeed, in a dog fight manoeuvrability is what matters more than speed, in fact modern jets have to slow down to dogfight.

 

[moggy1968]

It was the Hawker Hurricane that was the real star of the fighter war, it was very underrated but stot down more enemy aircraft than the Spit, the Hurricane was even a 'Tank Buster' in the 'Noth African' campaign, and was far,far easier to repair being mostly made of wood, as opposied to the streesed metal off the Spit.

ALSO.

Credit to.
Riley Rosell, B.A Computer Science, Bethel University (2019)

depends on the model. There were 5 main setups used overall, usually denoted these days with a lowercase letter after the Mk of the aircraft, but it actually stood for the wing type used, since each of the 4 could carry different guns (that’s not an oversight, I’ll get there in a moment):

A type: 8 x .303 Browning Light Machine gun. decent firepower when the first Mk’s were being made, but it was quickly succeeded by other armament setups later in the war, since it became clear that the Rifle caliber guns alone would not be sufficient

B type: the 4 innermost Brownings were swapped out for 20mm Hispanos (the first planes equipped, the Mk Ib and IIb, used the Hispano Mk I, but later variants used the mk II). The most popular arrangment overall. It should be noted that the Ib didn’t really see much use, as the very early attempts at getting the Hispanos to work reliably were… quirky.

C type: Universal wing. This could carry any of the above, as well as an armament of 4 x 20mm Hispano autocannons. The 4 cannon setup, while harder hitting, was uncommon, as the armament was rather heavy. There’s another gun setup the C wing could carry that I’ll get to later

D type: unarmed. The space that would have been used for guns instead carried additional fuel tanks. This was a photo reconnaissance spitfire, so it needed additional range.

E type: unnoficial designation for the 5th armament setup possible (excluding some field modifications of the type C armament being reduced to just 2 of the cannons instead of 4): 2 x 20mm Hispano Mk II, and 2 x 12.7mm Browning M2 Heavy Machine Gun. This was the popular choice for the last year and a half of the war, since it wasn’t that much heavier than the type B armament, but had a nice increase in burst mass, as well as being better at punching through armor plates and engine blocks.

The war era spits generally didn't carry any external ordnance, although some could carry bombs if they must.

indeed, the hurricane is probably one of the most underrated aircraft of all time. It was key to winning the battle.

 

[flint]

Easy to forget the part that the Poles played, often in Hurricanes. https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-polish-pilots-who-flew-in-the-battle-of-britain

 

[steverjuk]

Another dark sport on our history, soon as the war was over we kicked them out.

 

[jibberjabber]

Another dark sport on our history, soon as the war was over we kicked them out.

No we didn't, Poles were welcome to stay I know many of them, and many Pole's married English Gal's, and not fall into the hands of Stalin, the Pole's that left wanted to go home to help rebuild Poland.
I hope this is the last political post in this thread, as it started out as a nice chit chat about planes.

 

[jibberjabber]

This will give some Nostalgia to the older members What a Sound Track! And what a sight I bet,

.... We have many Museums and memorials dedicated to these Magnificent Machines around Dover area.... Enjoy this if you got 10 mins

Fantastic.

Luckily for us, thank God, the FW 190 was never made in enough numbers to make a difference, as in many ways it was better than the early to mid WW11 Spits.

Not all, but most of the FW 190's fought on the Eastern front.

 

[steverjuk]

How is stating fact being political

reference https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3884076/Why-did-humiliate-Polish-aces-Battle-Britain-heroics-ungrateful-nation-wanted-deport-men-women-fell-Hitler-feared.htm I can find more if you want. Maybe kicked out was strong, asked to leave should have been said. You know it’s bad when the daily mail is pro immigration.

From being indispensable, they were suddenly redundant. The risk they took and the sacrifices they made were never fully understood, let alone appreciated.’

Worse still, where the Poles had once been heroes, they now became pariahs.

The British public — eager to support the post-war peace settlement in Europe and not yet aware of the horrors Stalinism really entailed — turned against the thousands who chose to stay rather than go home to live under communist rule.

Labour MPs whinged about the cost of resettling them here in Britain. Trades unions, notably the miners and the agricultural workers, ganged up on them for taking ‘British’ jobs, even though there was a shortage of labour. ‘Poles go home’ and ‘England for the English’ were daubed on walls near Polish Air Force bases. More than half of those asked in an opinion poll said they wanted the Poles deported.

 

[jibberjabber]

How is stating fact being political

reference https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3884076/Why-did-humiliate-Polish-aces-Battle-Britain-heroics-ungrateful-nation-wanted-deport-men-women-fell-Hitler-feared.htm I can find more if you want. Maybe kicked out was strong, asked to leave should have been said. You know it’s bad when the daily mail is pro immigration.

From being indispensable, they were suddenly redundant. The risk they took and the sacrifices they made were never fully understood, let alone appreciated.’

Worse still, where the Poles had once been heroes, they now became pariahs.

The British public — eager to support the post-war peace settlement in Europe and not yet aware of the horrors Stalinism really entailed — turned against the thousands who chose to stay rather than go home to live under communist rule.

Labour MPs whinged about the cost of resettling them here in Britain. Trades unions, notably the miners and the agricultural workers, ganged up on them for taking ‘British’ jobs, even though there was a shortage of labour. ‘Poles go home’ and ‘England for the English’ were daubed on walls near Polish Air Force bases. More than half of those asked in an opinion poll said they wanted the Poles deported.

You are stating so called facts about political events after the end of WW2, not what this thread was started for, it was started about facts about areoplanes, I'm surprised you haven't bought 'Brexit' into yet.

All I'm asking is, if you want to talk about weather the Pole's were 'kicked out' or 'asked to leave' then start another thread, then we can all have a debate about Polish in this country during and after the Second World War.

There were many, many very, very brave pilots from many countries that fought on the Allies side, and amongst them were Pole's, this is not in dispute.

Sorry you have taken the 'hump'

Your go. See you in you new thread.

 

[steverjuk]

Nice to see your now a forum moderator or feel like you have to act like one. Yet again someone bringing up Brexit and being angry about someone simple making a passing comment that is based on facts but doesn’t jell with their version of reality. Sorry to see you have taken the hump but I’ll not be start another thread m.

 

[jibberjabber]

Nice to see your now a forum moderator or feel like you have to act like one. Yet again someone bringing up Brexit and being angry about someone simple making a passing comment that is based on facts but doesn’t jell with their version of reality. Sorry to see you have taken the hump but I’ll not be start another thread m.

Tit for Tat sorry you'v got rattled.

I would not presume to try to moderat you, moderators are very necessary and do a fantastic job.

I can also assure you, I am not angry with you, and would not like to 'jell' with you.

Here is a fact for you, I am married to the daughter of a second world war Polish refugee (who fought on our side) who was not 'kicked out' or 'asked to leave' after the end of WW2, He was welcomed and assimilated into our community, so I think I have a teenie weenie bit of knowledge on the subject of 'Polish leaving the UK after the second world war'.

Your turn, but only if you would like to chat and get back to the subject of 'second world war fighter aircraft'. Namely
Focke Wulf 190 V Spitfire, or even better, Toyota Land Cruisers.

 

[steverjuk]

Just the last comment but my friends family who also moved hear during the Second World War where not treated the same, the only reason I made the comment in the first place don’t believe that because you experienced something it’s the same for everyone else, especially when the opposite has be documented multiple times.

 

[jibberjabber]

Just the last comment but my friends family who also moved hear during the Second World War where not treated the same, the only reason I made the comment in the first place don’t believe that because you experienced something it’s the same for everyone else, especially when the opposite has be documented multiple times.

Okay, okay, you can have the last word, I'm bored now, your right I'm wrong. Now can we get back to the subject of
Focke Wulf 190 V Spitfire, please.

 

[steverjuk]

Sure

 

[jibberjabber]

Second thoughts, I've found a more intresting thread now 'On this day in history' in the Lounge.

No more gosip from me about Poles driving Spit's or FW 190's, it's all down to you now

 

[moggy1968]

Easy to forget the part that the Poles played, often in Hurricanes. https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-polish-pilots-who-flew-in-the-battle-of-britain

They had the highest kill rate relative to attrition rate, mostly because they were already very experienced at fighting the Germans.