Got to be criminally negligent

[clivehorridge]

And then inevitably this...

Unacceptably disgraceful...

 

[chapel gate]

Bloody hell!

 

[BobMurphy]

I don't feel so bad about my little "Oh Sh1t" moments now .

I hope they got everyone out of the flats in time.

Someone has a lifetime of paperwork ahead of him .

Bob.

 

[StarCruiser]

Now that’s truly a bad day at work. What country was that in Clive?

I mean there must be some responsibility placed on whoever allowed the flats to be built on ground dependent on another building for its support. Apart from the obvious bodged supports for the retaining wall.
I hope nobody was hurt.

 

[Animal Mother]

Now that’s truly a bad day at work. What country was that in Clive?

I mean there must be some responsibility placed on whoever allowed the flats to be built on ground dependent on another building for its support. Apart from the obvious bodged supports for the retaining wall.
I hope nobody was hurt.

Turkey.

 

[frank rabbets]

Almost looks like they did it on purpose Clive!!.

 

[moggy1968]

Well, at least the hole got backfilled!
People moan about regulations, but this is why we have them

 

[clivehorridge]

Now that’s truly a bad day at work. What country was that in Clive?

I mean there must be some responsibility placed on whoever allowed the flats to be built on ground dependent on another building for its support. Apart from the obvious bodged supports for the retaining wall.
I hope nobody was hurt.

I dont know the details Rich. This is Istanbul, and they’re building anywhere there’s a few square meters.

I might be wrong, but it’s my speculation that the block of flats at the higher level were built on undisturbed hillside material. It appears to me that the retaining wall that collapsed were wholly inadequate temporary works for a development at the base of the hill. The wall has no foundation whatsoever, which suggests that its temporary. The big but is that to support such a weight of the hill, that wall should have been at least 10 x the structural capacity of that constructed, for no other reason than cost savings.

A proper approach would have been to install some fairly hefty reinforced bored cast in situ concrete piles in a curtain wall. They would have needed to have been installed at the least 15m below the base of the excavation going right to the top, with no more than 60cm between them. These would have been very expensive to install, but the only thing IMO that would have guaranteed stability. I’m not an Engineer, but what they were doing was visibly wholly inadequate, even if it had (by luck) held up.

Events like this piss me off, because the right way is available, and potential disasters like this are avoidable. It’s down to money and regulations, and these guys broke every rule in the book and the governing regulations. Someone will be going to prison for this, they don’t mess about in Turkey.

I don’t know if there was any loss of life, they had plenty of warning, the ground anchors were popping for a good 5 minutes before it let go. I’m guessing too that there was time to vacate the bloc that collapsed sometime later... hope so.

 

[Higgy]

Imagine the look on the 360 drivers face when he gets back from the café, and looks down the hole.. ''where the'' FFF!

 

[Shayne]

You beat me to it Clive but i was going to say this stinks of corruption to me , unless its standard practice to build on a concrete raft (it is in Germany i believe though i may have the wrong country) this consequence of building on unsettled ground was predicted me thinks and so ultimately assuming the gov has to sign plans off it is they who are liable .

The retaining wall was just a joke but it only accelerated the inevitable in my view .

 

[frank rabbets]

Looked like a cardboard box in relative terms Clive. When the "Cube " was built in Birmingham they had to lower the existing ground level by about 15 metres. Problem was that the main canal was right on the boundary. First thing they did was use a huge 1 metre diameter drill to drill right down below new proposed ground level and then filled the holes with concrete so you ended up with a cantilevered retaining wall.

See the boats at the top. Sorry about poor image quality. Had to resize due to poor upload speed.

 

[clivehorridge]

Looked like a cardboard box in relative terms Clive. When the "Cube " was built in Birmingham they had to lower the existing ground level by about 15 metres. Problem was that the main canal was right on the boundary. First thing they did was use a huge 1 metre diameter drill to drill right down below new proposed ground level and then filled the holes with concrete so you ended up with a cantilevered retaining wall.View attachment 147820
See the boats at the top. Sorry about poor image quality. Had to resize due to poor upload speed.

Nice one rich, canals are always a bit tricky to work with/on.

 

[clivehorridge]

You beat me to it Clive but i was going to say this stinks of corruption to me , unless its standard practice to build on a concrete raft (it is in Germany i believe though i may have the wrong country) this consequence of building on unsettled ground was predicted me thinks and so ultimately assuming the gov has to sign plans off it is they who are liable .

The retaining wall was just a joke but it only accelerated the inevitable in my view .

As. You know Shayne, there’s nothing wrong with raft foundations, if the ground beneath is stable. I too am surprised that the bloc of flats wasn’t on a piled foundation, perched up there as it was.

You’re probably right that someone was looking the other way when those foundations were inspected ...

The rules are much the same there as the UK, plans approved and stages of construction inspected, same here with “Phase Determinat” the equivalent of the building inspector paying you a visit in the UK at completion of foundation excavations, top of foundations, roof plate, roof trusses (IIRC - maybe not).

It’s all about enforcement as we know, what suits you, rigid or flexible sir?

 

[Gary820]

And i thought I'd had one of those days

 

[StarCruiser]

I thought the wall had some sort of corner detail so it looked to me like part of a building demolished to accommodate the new construction. I’ve seen this done with facades and party walks and the bracing for them is 20 times what was shown without supporting the ground.

 

[clivehorridge]

I thought the wall had some sort of corner detail so it looked to me like part of a building demolished to accommodate the new construction. I’ve seen this done with facades and party walks and the bracing for them is 20 times what was shown without supporting the ground.

It’s hard to tell from the vid Rich, it’s possible there was a building there preveously (now demolished) because that ‘wall’ does look as though it may be older. If the previous (now demolished) building was assisting/supporting the ‘wall’ then by demolishing it, the’ve weakened the retaining characteristics of the remaining wall.

What is clear is that the current excavation level is well below the toe of the remaining ‘wall’, which is not good, even if the ‘wall’ had been more substantial.

Istanbul has had recent torrential rain storms (as we have had here) so the potential instability of the material behind the wall would be very high indeed. The pressure on that ‘wall’ must have been massive, just before the collapse.

They were taking a huge gamble in any event, and Istanbul is also rated as a seismic zone, so the slightest tremor (even one that was unmeasurable) would have triggered some liquefaction in that saturated material.

Not good anywaysabout.

 

[Shayne]

Even before permission to build was granted a mate had to show the ground of the old pot shaft stone crushing plant had been given 20 years to settle here http://www.bbconsulting.co.im/?page_id=36

I heard rumour 2 or 3 years ago that it was sinking anyway , though i personally take it with a pinch of salt as people like to start rumours about a guy who's mum lent him enough to buy a lorry and who lived in a bedroom above his mum's corner shop until he owned 3 lorries , so yeah he did well for himself and people don't like that .

Edit the link isn't specific so - Louisa House Foxdale

 

[clivehorridge]

Like that Shayne, a lovely design too, better than a lot of the ‘cheap and functional’ modern stuff that gets churned out these days.

 

[moggy1968]

Even before permission to build was granted a mate had to show the ground of the old pot shaft stone crushing plant had been given 20 years to settle here http://www.bbconsulting.co.im/?page_id=36

I heard rumour 2 or 3 years ago that it was sinking anyway , though i personally take it with a pinch of salt as people like to start rumours about a guy who's mum lent him enough to buy a lorry and who lived in a bedroom above his mum's corner shop until he owned 3 lorries , so yeah he did well for himself and people don't like that .

Edit the link isn't specific so - Louisa House Foxdale

Man that’s big ‘ole!!

 

[Shayne]

Well they had to go deep for the swimming pool to be below ground level .