Handbrake Solutions

[Chris]

Don't worry Chris, I am laughing at this end. The day I take a thread seriously it'll be time to pack up. I think the Avensis idea is interesting. Not sure that you'll be able to get a cable run to it though. You may have to lose the back plate. But it's an idea. Converting the rear to disc handbrake from internal drum handbrake is something that clearly Toyota have done, so it's a maybe. The rear brake systems are identical in design on the two vehicles so anything that works on one can be made to work on the other. If you pursue a disc brake ad I pursue a prop brake, first one to make it work wins! And the other has to show his arse in Landrover magazine.

The ideas are certainly bouncing. That's for sure.

C

 

[Shayne]

Then again would there then be enough travel in the lever to take up the slack. Now I think about it definately not. You would not be changing the distance the cable is pulled only where it is pulled from.

To simplify if you ran the cable under the truck then drilled a hole in the floor directly below the handbrake button , then fastened the cable to the button , when you let the handbrake off your dropping 5 or 6 inches of cable slack through the floor .

 

[Chris]

Spot on Shayne. Now I do like that caliper. That has real potential. A straight pull like that makes for very easy actuation. Find me a UK version.

C

 

[Chris Green90]

And the other has to show his arse in Landrover magazine.
C

That sounds like something I would do for the fun of it. lol

 

[sae70]

I've already seen your arse Chris So would not be new to me I'd need to see something far more shameful from the looozer, maybe having to drive a Land Rover for a month as a DD

I noticed on the description for that last mechanical caliper that it would be perfect for a Yard Kart, so should be perfect for an 80

 

[Shayne]

That caliper harks back to what i said about an old dumper truck . Plant vehicles dont get maintained at all unlike daily drivers . So if you could find an old dump truck , forklift , digger or anything like that in a scrapyard you would likely get a good caliper , especially if you can find some of that mini plant machinery designed to be towed by a van with a trailer .

 

[Ben]

I had a good chat with Simon from X Eng on Sunday. The 70 brake needed a little 'fitting' and some people had expected it to bolt on with Toyota like precision. When it didn't work, they threw teddy out of the pram and posted on some forums as to how crap it was. This resulted in a significant quantity coming back, un fitted, so he told me.

Incidentally, Ben if you reading, I'm not suggesting that you are in this bunch. I know how handy you are and how hard you tried. Not sure that ever found out quite why it didn't work on yours. He had started development on a 80 series but has scrapped that and will NOT be picking it up again. Shame, I'd have bought one too.

So we need to make our own. I like the spot handbrake thingy, but a bit concerned that the stroke on the lever looks like a lot. Maybe better to turn with an electric motor than an air ram. A diff lock motor would be ideal. As it has springs in it, it would be self adjusting with pad wear! Anyway, I need to mock up a back plate first and then see what scope we have. Fortunately, I have a spare T box in the garden so I could do all of this in the garage. Whoopee. Almost warm

C

Dont get on here as much as I used to so only just caught up with this thread.

No worries Chris, but as Roger said it wouldn't physically fit on a standard vehicle.

Its bloody annoying really, had he spent a bit longer developing the product, and done it on a standard vehicle. Then I've no doubt it would have been successful, hed have sold loads and then gone onto developing and selling 80 series ones.

I've spent a lot of time trying to get it working, and I can get it working. But then after a short drive the disc and calliper are hot, and the pads quickly wear down.

Slacken the cable off and adjust the calliper so that that pads are further away from the disc, and the calliper and disc dont get hot when driving. BUT then the brake isnt very effective.

I will look at it again at some point, you know me I dont give up easily.

Anyway.........................

I'm looking forward to seeing where this thread goes, and how you get on developing yours Chris.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

But while i was writing i had another (probably stupid) idea . If the handbrake gives up because of suspension flex then it seems obvious the cable is being over stressed which is why it pulls out and needs reset . You can't make the cable longer because then it wont work at all ..... unless , you alter the handbrake lever so the cable connects to it further forwards . This means when you pull the handbrake up your pulling more cable in to activate the brakes , but when you put it down your adding a few inches of slack which might be enough to let the suspension flex without harming the brakes .

It's possible to extend an existing cable by using new inner wire and making up an extension tube out of steel or aluminium for the outer, or, better still, look for a new complete cable that you can modify. Some companies will supply the basic bits and you make your own.

Roger

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Valid point Roger. This is why I have machined my brake disc with that central hole to mate with the prop. I have yet to lie underneath mine when I can to look at where I can stick the caliper. The X Eng one is in my view a bit big, maybe even over engineered. Hopefully a smaller caliper will allow some better mounting options. With using a small air actuator, I also don't need to have to worry about where I run a brake cable. It maybe that having this rather limited where X Eng could mount their brackets.

I machined a locating tube to marry the prop to the disc and the disc to the flange. I would have sourced longer, proper studs but then changed my mind when I saw the X-Brake caliper. It's big and heavy. I am still toying with my idea to make my own with a screw thread to operate it.

Roger

 

[Shayne]

Quote Ben "I've spent a lot of time trying to get it working, and I can get it working. But then after a short drive the disc and calliper are hot, and the pads quickly wear down"

Could you add a spring to the caliper lever to hold the brake open when there is no tension on the handbrake ?

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Quote Ben "I've spent a lot of time trying to get it working, and I can get it working. But then after a short drive the disc and calliper are hot, and the pads quickly wear down"

Could you add a spring to the caliper lever to hold the brake open when there is no tension on the handbrake ?

It already has one Shayne. The problem is that the disc and caliper piston are not running parallel, so if you adjust the cable to give a correct position on the h/brake lever, the pad is rubbing slightly on the disc. loosen the cable to eliminate the rubbing and the movement on the lever is excessive. Also the caliper is mounted onto the plate via two tubes which are open to the elements and bind up very quickly.

Roger

 

[Shayne]

I'm amazed it works at all if not parallel ? Most calipers have only one moving pad , the other only really acts to stop the disc buckling when pressure is applied by the other pad on the other side of the disc . So put a sheet of paper on the disc then fit the caliper with the non moving pad tight to the disc . That has to make it parallel so you can now alter your bracket to keep it there . This should give the moving pad far more room for accurate adjustment and the paper will burn away in an instant once you start moving .

 

[Dave_S]

It already has one Shayne. The problem is that the disc and caliper piston are not running parallel, so if you adjust the cable to give a correct position on the h/brake lever, the pad is rubbing slightly on the disc. loosen the cable to eliminate the rubbing and the movement on the lever is excessive. Also the caliper is mounted onto the plate via two tubes which are open to the elements and bind up very quickly.

Roger

Amazed re the binding point - as I said, in 6 years didn't have this happen once despite serious abuse (and no, I'm not on commission LOL!). Weird... maybe a different set up for Landrovers?

 

[Shayne]

Just to mention I fitted an X-Eng handbrake to my competition LR90 and found it brilliant - never slipped, rarely needed adjusting even after serious offroad action. Had that on the vehicle for 6 years, I think. I know many other guys with them - the only people that thought they were crap hadn't fitted them properly in the first place. Would fit one to my 80 Series LC in a heartbeat, if they make one... Amazed re the binding point - as I said, in 6 years didn't have this happen once despite serious abuse (and no, I'm not on commission LOL!). Weird... maybe a different set up for Landrovers?

I guess a bolt on part designed and built for a landrover actually works on a landrover then , how interesting , i wonder if a bolt on toyota part would work on a toyota ?

 

[Roger Fairclough]

I'm amazed it works at all if not parallel ? Most calipers have only one moving pad , the other only really acts to stop the disc buckling when pressure is applied by the other pad on the other side of the disc . So put a sheet of paper on the disc then fit the caliper with the non moving pad tight to the disc . That has to make it parallel so you can now alter your bracket to keep it there . This should give the moving pad far more room for accurate adjustment and the paper will burn away in an instant once you start moving .

The caliper is mounted onto two sliders.The sliders are mounted onto the mounting plate. Because the plate is twisted relative to the disc---probably due to the way it's mounted---the face piston in the caliper is not parallel to the disc. You cannot move the caliper without bending the plate and that's 8 mm thick. The non moving pad is there as part of the friction material and disc buckling is nothing to do with it. I fail to see how putting a piece of paper against the disc solves the problem.

Roger

 

[Shayne]

Roger i might be getting a bit out of my depth here and i'm struggling to find words to explain what i mean .

Take the bracket and caliper off . Put a bit of paper between the non moving pad and the disc , then activate the brake and both pads will hold the caliper in its ideal position . If the bracket doesn't line up exactly with absolute precision to the caliper bolt holes then you should be able to see how and where the bracket needs altered .

The paper is because the lazy pad usually remains in loose contact with the disc all the time , so the paper is just a temporary spacer to ensure you dont end up with the lazy pad in firm contact with the disc after you've altered the bracket .

 

[Roger Fairclough]

If the caliper bolted directly to the bracket, then yes, you could do this, although you don't need the paper but because of the sliding action of the system, it wont work. The only way to do it is to machine each flange mounting point so that they are all the same height. Then mount the bracket and measure the various distances between disc and bracket. If the same, then they are parallel, the caliper should mount correctly and it should work.

Roger

 

[Shayne]

As i said outa my depth , i need to stop lookin at this thread i don't know enough to think about it . I've successfully fitted the wrong caliper to a few motorbikes using the paper but they were only held in place by a made up steel plate with 4 holes for bolts .

 

[Shayne]

Seems the clamp brake wasn't that daft an idea http://forums.aaca.org/f143/relining-hand-brake-262747.html

 

[Shayne]

The more i look at that clamp shaft brake the more i like it . Thats proper no nonsense mechanics and you could pretty much make the whole thing yourself , its damn near unbreakable and even if you did damage it a hammer would put it straight again . Makes the X-eng look massively over engineered IMO