I have an itch....

[Bat21]

.... just how capable is the 120 LC?

I have an 80, is it like comparing a Range Rover Sport to a Defender?

 

[uHu]

More like a Freelander...

imho - nothing beats an 80 - so far

 

[Graham]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that uHu,

You might be surprised yourself.

There were a lot of places the 120 went where 80 owners wouldn't venture (also Disco owners )

I think the 80 series were "good in their day", but times have moved on now.

Gra.

 

[Charlie]

The 120 LC is a very capable truck, but has a few more ECU’s / electrics and the newer trucks have a common rail engine. For me a simply 80 series is better for an overland truck, but it will use more fuel. A 120 is very comfortable for day to day driving and or long motorway drives, but if you have a breakdown it maybe harder to get fixed on the spot.

At the end of the day, I think it’s down to personal choice and what the truck will be used for.

 

[Bat21]

Thanks guys.

Charlie, I hear what you are saying and I have to admit those were my thoughts too but, how often do 'things' go wrong with a LC4 120? Do they have any weak points?

My 80 is my second vehicle and is mainly used for our Morocco trips but does get used once a week to keep things 'moving'.

How available is after market off road goodies (winch bumpers etc) for the 120?

 

[Rob]

Graham I would have to disagree with you. The offroad ability of a vehicle does not deteriorate with age and while the 120 is a capable vehicle the 80 is in a totally different league. Lets compare my 80 to Crispins 120, both have AT tyres that have seen better days, both have a mild lift and both have after market front bumpers increasing approach angle. And finally both are manual. I can tell you straight away that if I get stuck somewhere Crispin does not even attempt to go there as he knows he will get stuck, but when Crispin gets stuck I always give it a go and so far always get through. The 80 is much better on the axle twisters, it will just walk all over great big holes without the use of lockers where the 120 makes a meal of it and gets stuck. ATRAC is useless in deep mud, and that's where the front locker and weight comes to the 80s advantage.

In fact the only place a 120 LWB can go where an 80 will not go is when the 80 will physically not fit past an obstacle, or break the bridge due to its weight I am not trying to say that the 120 is useless, it is as good as any other modern LC and it is a real tough offroader and should not be underestimated. However if your overlanding and want a more modern vehicle then I would advise sticking to the larger 100, Gary can tell you all about the lack of space in the boot when you put a fridge, water tank, cooker, recovery gear, tools, leisure battery, spare fuel, tent, table, chairs, 5 foot highlift oh wait that last one won't fit in a 120.

 

[Gary Stockton]

OK - I'll take the bait. I wouldn't put the 120 in the same class as the RR sport - more in the Disco 3 or 4 league ito space etc. Both have a 3.0 tdi common rail motor - the disco is a twin turbo V6 though

I've had 2 x 80s and now the 120. The trick is to try to minimise what SWMBO thinks is necessary to take with on a long trip Never easy. I mean - how many kitchen sinks do you really need??

The boot depth is fairly similar, but the 120 is a fair bit narrower (but taller) than the 80, so you end up with a strangely shaped, narrow but tall space to pack in. The side-opening door is also interesting, because it slopes inwards and so robs you of quite a bit of room ...

The 120 drives more comfortably than the 80 because of the IFS - but I always found that the live-axle 'Land Cruiser lurch' almost entirely disappeared once decent suspension went on - or maybe that was just me justifying it

17" rims are a pain, as is the rim off-set, and not being able to go to 16" due to the calipers doesn't help, so tyre choice is fairly limited and more expensive than it should be.

So - would I overland in my 120? Absolutely. Am I concerned about faulty ECUs? Not really. If I drowned the 120 I'd have a big problem. But if I didn't do anything absolutely stupidly extreme I think the electronics is a no-brainer. I've not seen anything on MUD, PradoPoint or Toyota 120 forums that points to a weakness in the electronics. I've heard of a 150 with a problem engaging the push-button low-range selector - but that was due to the cable being pulled off the switch underneath when they went trail-blazing, but some under-armour would sort that, which I'd have on any overlander anyway, 80 or 120.

What does give me cause for concern is stuff like wheel bearings and diffs, and on the autos the in-radiator gearbox cooler. Would that stop me? Nope - take a spare set of bearings if you're that worried, and make sure the maintenance is done properly. Again, I've not heard of the KZ-TE cooling failure on the D-4d. If the injector issue is sorted, then I think the motor is fairly solid - admittedly not in the same industrial-strength way as the 4.2 - but that wouldn't stop me either. Access to parts in remote areas is definitely one to watch, but becoming less of an issue now the UN is using the 120 more and more...

Main diff is internal space - the 120 has less of it. More creature-comforts though. Also more plasticky bits, like all modern cars. They're fairly close ito power and get-up-and-go. The 120 already has an inter-cooler and can be easily chipped for 200hp without (apparently) breaking anything ... A well-set up 120 gives astonishingly good consumption too.

After-market accessories are readily available - Kaymar and ARB do a lot, and there is an after-market extra fuel tank now available, because we didn't get the twin tank system like in SA or Oz - pity - 190 litres of fuel on-board would be a boon. Knock-off bumpers etc. are also available. Roof-racks are easily done, and are a straight swap, I 'think' with the 100 for leg spacing. Snorkels are also easily available, as is after-market suspension, even for the LC5 with it's air-suspension (which I've grown to love for it's auto-levelling feature if nothing else - any load in the back and your ride-height is unaffected).

If you can fabricate stuff, you should be able to prep it to your heart's content.

Would I go with diff locks vs ATRAC? Think both at the back is a benefit - not sure about the front. The fact that Mr T has gone with both ATRAC and a locker at the back on the 150 and 200 makes me think I'm on the right track, so I'll be fitting my eLocker asap. ATRAC seems to need a bit of traction to engage properly, and I sometimes think we may not give enough wellie when we get, or think we will get, stuck. So far, touch wood, I've got through the tricky bits the same as the 100s or 80s bar two notable exceptions - once was because the centre diff was bust and didn't lock, the second time because I chickened out at the last minute, backed off the juice and ran out of momentum in a mud-hole - driver error (oh - and same when I got myself grounded on the belly when going too slow on a river entry ...)

Would I prefer an 80 to drive through Africa? I dunno - maybe. If I could have ONLY one, and it had to be a daily drive and a holiday vehicle and an overlander and a green laner etc. etc. - I still dunno. Probably the 120! Depends on whether SWMBO is coming with for an extended time I guess I have to re-design my packing system anyway, whatever I do. Or pack less

Best I can say is to try get an extended test drive in a 120 and see for yourself. It's horses for courses to a large degree. The 80 is less refined and possibly more robust, but they're all getting a lot older so things are breaking. The 120 is more refined, a bit 'softer' in some areas, but I reckon just as capable ... as an overlander. If you want extreme lifts etc. then the 120 is not the vehicle, not without doing masses of work on UCAs, ARBs, steering, diff, etc. And if you want to run 35" tyres you may need to re-gear diffs, etc. But that's not for overlanding, is it?

Just my tuppence, and HTH.

Cheers

 

[Charlie]

Thanks guys.

Charlie, I hear what you are saying and I have to admit those were my thoughts too but, how often do 'things' go wrong with a LC4 120? Do they have any weak points?

I’ve not had any experience directly with the LC120 or LC150 common rails engines, however I believe its basically the same engine that is fitted to the newer D4D Hilux which is my daily drive while I’m in Indonesia. The fuel quality over there is poor, and I’ve had issues related to this with the Hilux. These issues range from the normal low power / fuel filters to having the fuel pump changed due to contamination in the fuel. Before the Hilux I had a HZJ79R pick up, which is still running filling up with the same fuel as the Hilux with no issues its now got 385,000 kms on the clock compared to my Hilux with 45,000 kms. As I say fuel quality is very poor here, I would still buy a Hilux in Europe but not for the more remote locations with lower quality fuel.

 

[Gary Stockton]

That's a fair point - the 80 will run on almost anything vs the 120 preference for high-end, low-sulphur diesel only. You can fit extra filters etc. etc. but can't run veg oil, for example.

So if I was really going to weird places (like Indonesia ) I'd probably go in an 80

 

[Charlie]

I already have an extra Racor filter fitted, and still getting problems.

 

[Graham]

The 120 does run on new cooking oil, and paraffin, mixed 50/50 in the summer.
Didn't feel any different, just a little quieter, that's all.
Now the cooking oil is also past the £1.00 a liter, it's not really worth the messing.
Probably did about 2000 miles only, few "tank fulls" didn't seem to have any adverse affects.


Gra.

 

[adrianr]

I would have though the 120 would also run on proper bio diesel as well? - You have some experience of its manufacture IIRC Graham?