Lateral front end steering wheel/pedal shudder

[mark lang]

Had wheels balanced , still same , everything feels tight at front end , unsure about shocks as I'm suspecting them (felt this before on a trip back from Morocco in a defender , shocks swapped /sorted) also can steering damper cause this ?this is more apparent upon steering left/right ??.
Mark

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[Dave2000]

Pedal shudder can happen if, the wheel bearings are not adjust correctly, the discs are warped, brake calliper not tight, ..................

The brake pedal shuddering indicates brake fluid is moving in the system, this can only happen if you are pushing down on the brake or something (warped disc for example) is pushing back. I have seen instances where there is no brake pedal shudder until the car has been driven for awhile, this is normally caused by the disc warping once it is hot, this is normally caused by a brake pad sticking in the calliper or the piston sticking in the calliper body cause by rust in the brake system.

Lots to check here mate, discs all round, adjustable bearings all round etc.

regards

Dave

 

[mark lang]

Hi matey , it's not a shudder like that when disc's are warped , this isn't happening when breaking , it's a left to right shimmering , it's consistent with shock absorber wear (front wheels solid ) steering damper is f***ed but can't see this giving me slight steering wheel imbalance ?, hardly felt it this morning on the drive to work .
Mark.

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[frank rabbets]

I can't find the link now but 4x4's MUST be fitted with a steering damper as they are liable to front wheel resonance, causing steering wheel to vibrate on its axis, which in extreme case can cause lose of control. Motorcycles are the same otherwise you get uncontrolable " tank slappers" especially after hitting a bump. My dad used to call them "speed wobbles" as in when standing at the grave side he used to whisper "he must have got in to a speed wobble" as if in prayer with his eyes closed. On old bikes dampers were adjustable whilst driving but unfortunately you could slacken them from seating position for round town then forget to tighten them in the country. Many a time I've been over the handle bars with no helmet on. Ah that explains it.

Before piston type steering dampers 4x4's had steering dampers built into the steering arm where it passed through a type of spring clutch in the chassis.

I don't think the war jeeps had dampers. If you watch them in the old films you will see the front wheels vibrating.....unless it was extreme fear in the driver .

 

[mark lang]

Will be fitting new damper as my old one is knackered .
Mark

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[Dave2000]

Hi matey , it's not a shudder like that when disc's are warped , this isn't happening when breaking , it's a left to right shimmering , it's consistent with shock absorber wear (front wheels solid ) steering damper is f***ed but can't see this giving me slight steering wheel imbalance ?, hardly felt it this morning on the drive to work .
Mark.

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I'm afraid you have lost me mate? Your title mentions 'pedal shudder' you then say it does not happen when braking, are you saying the pedal is shuddering without you touching it, surely not?

Please clarify

regards

Dave

 

[mark lang]

Yep , at certain speeds on motorway the pedals shimmer left to right , obviously along with the front of the vehicle and steering wheel , the steering wheel is more apparent when cornering left or right , it's not felt obvious over last few days however I've had the damper off and compressed it a few times (not sure if this has had an effect or not but it's definitely dead the damper ?)
Mark.

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[mark lang]

Andrew lomas , your going to have to help me out explaining this one ??.

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[Dave2000]

Yep , at certain speeds on motorway the pedals shimmer left to right , obviously along with the front of the vehicle and steering wheel , the steering wheel is more apparent when cornering left or right , it's not felt obvious over last few days however I've had the damper off and compressed it a few times (not sure if this has had an effect or not but it's definitely dead the damper ?)

Mark.

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I really am sorry Mark, I must be having a blonde moment! How can your pedals shimmer left to right?

regards

Dave

 

[mark lang]

Because they can with the front of the vehicle moving left to right , I'm putting my money on shock absorber , go outside and take hold of break/accelerator pedal and you'll see it can move left to right slightly 10mm either way

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[mark lang]

You'd then think bushes on anti roll , steering bar etc but they're solid ?

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[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Having driven the aforesaid Cruiser the other day I thought it tracked over undulations on the road and it felt like the front dampers and the steering damper weren't doing all they should be. We got it on the ramp and undid the bottom nut on the dampers. On the first push up there was little resistance but then it seemed to get better, my feelings were that there should have been resistance straight away so I think there may be an issue with the front dampers, that said it still felt like the steering damper wasn't doing its best. Mark has since confirmed that the steering damper is U/S so when that has been replaced we can see if there is an improvement which I feel there will be. Running on slightly oversize tyres and travelling in the desert may have been a bit too much for the 20 year old original unit.
We can only report back.

Andy

 

[Shayne]

Probably wrong - i usually am , but i'd bleed everything before i started buying things , air bubbles in hydraulics can do very strange things .

 

[frank rabbets]

Amazing videos and other information if you google "death wobble 4x4".

 

[clivehorridge]

If I'm not too stupid or misunderstanding something here, suspension dampers (or shock absorbers) should compress with almost no resistance and the "damping" action is felt when extending the damper again. They work on pull, not push, correct?

 

[mark lang]

Not sure on that one Clive , I've always thought the force on compression is the same as extension on the shocker ?.

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[mark lang]

Either way there's no outward force at all on the steering damper

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[Shayne]

I think they work both ways coz a fully compressed spring becomes the equivalent of a solid metal pipe which would result in shattered teeth if the damper didn't slow the rate of compression before the spring went solid .

 

[frank rabbets]

There is no spring in the damper internals. They resist compression and extension. If you put "stiffer shocks" on you will feel a harder ride, that's the compression bit. Sometimes there is a valve/valves to make the compression resistance greater than the extension resistance. When you drive off on a cold morning you may find the ride getting softer due to the oil warming up.

 

[clivehorridge]

I understood that the suspension spring offered resistance to the compression and the damper controlled the undesirable effects of the spring recovery.

I admit this is only a fundamental approach and technology has taken suspension to several new levels over the years, but a damper fighting the compression action of the spring seems pointless to me, as a matter of principle.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with anyone on this, just trying to get a better understanding....