LC 100 TD VX 2001 suddenly gutless!

[bigone]

Hi all. having a problem with acceleration at low revs - really apparent on mild road inclines when cold. Been running fine then went out one day recently and from cold would hardly accelerate up a mild incline. Foot to the floor and it started to gather momentum (not really accelerate) but improved as revs picked up. Have replaced the fuel filter (no change) and recently had a new air filter. Have done some research and a gummed-up EGR and inlet manifold seemed to fit the symptoms but it can apparently be checked if you disable the EGR by disconnecting and closing the flexible pipe connection at the EGR. This I did with no noticeable change to acceleration so it doesn't look like the EGR? (but why would the EGR suddenly cause my problem in any case - surely this would likely be a gradual loss of performance as crud built up?). Could it be the turbo or a sensor, do you think? Folk lore suggests that if it is the turbo there should be loads of black smoke - there isn't - and there are no dash warning lights - no MIL. Also Once it gets up to speed it thunders along as previously. Any thoughts would be gratefully received.
Brian

 

[CRUISER KING]

It sounds like it's possibly a blocked exhaust cat !!
if it is then just cut it out and straight-pipe it or buy a fresh cat from Gary at 80 Breaker' or have a word with the UKS top land cruiser guys at West Coast in Southport (end of)

 

[HDJ79R]

You don't mention how many miles / kilometres it's done (?)

From what i've seen of others with this problem, the blocking up of the intake with egr / oil gunk is definitely in the ballpark of your symptoms. Having watched the live data on my scanner, the egr is even turned on at idle. Given how i see how the egr valve is made, it would seem possible to me that it actually could get jammed open more than it should be by it's own gunk holding the valve off it's seat.

The cat's on these are very restrictive, even when new. I had this "thing" happen to mine at 300,000 kms onwards, where when going up a long highway hill, the engine would pick up power only when i backed out of the throttle a little. Then i put the new 3" exhaust on, which had a high-flow cat, the problem went away. So i'm inclined to suggest that as your's is a low rpm issue, that the cat is not the problem, only because you say the higher power level requests of the engine are not at issue.

A faulty sensor reading that is still within acceptable range will not throw a check engine light, yet a high air intake temp, high coolant temp or high fuel temp sensor input would derate the engine somwhat, because the ecu "thinks" it's hot.

 

[bigone]

Thanks for your thoughts - and it's 254k miles - all mine!. I had wondered about a cat fallen-to-pieces - would this throw a DTC, I wonder - hacking it off is a bit excessive so I would like to be sure-ish! And is there actually a cat fitted (it's a 2001 1HD-FTE)? The bulge in the exhaust pipe after the exhaust manifold has no electrical connections as far as I can see and therefore no Lambda, presumably? I have been following up on trying to access any DTC's using my Merc OBD2 kit (Torque Pro) but it won't connect to the ECU because the Toyota Diag system from this age was, as far as I know, M-ODB - Toyota proprietary. I have seen ref to the 'blink' method of diags read out via the MIL light but currently can't find chapter-and-verse. So my plan is to pour some Turbo/EGR cleaner in a tank full and go for a thrash, find and try the 'blink' diags method and then, if I am not happy with that, consider a garage based Diags run before any excessive work/expenditure.

 

[uHu]

Re Cat: There isn't an actual catalyser, but a particulate filter, and it does get blocked. But I agree with 79r that this doesn't sound like your problem here, as a partly blocked part.filter gives a problem at high power, not at low. Typically when going up a long, steep hill. Engine then goes into "slow-mo" and throws an engine light. If you then stop the engine and start again, everything is back to normal. The fault code will often be a Turbo Pressure Fault, because the turbo can't push enough air through the engine with a blocked exhaust. Btw, the 1HD-FTE will still pass environment tests without particulate filter and without egr.

 

[HDJ79R]

Thanks for your thoughts - and it's 254k miles - all mine!. I had wondered about a cat fallen-to-pieces - would this throw a DTC, I wonder - hacking it off is a bit excessive so I would like to be sure-ish! And is there actually a cat fitted (it's a 2001 1HD-FTE)? The bulge in the exhaust pipe after the exhaust manifold has no electrical connections as far as I can see and therefore no Lambda, presumably? I have been following up on trying to access any DTC's using my Merc OBD2 kit (Torque Pro) but it won't connect to the ECU because the Toyota Diag system from this age was, as far as I know, M-ODB - Toyota proprietary. I have seen ref to the 'blink' method of diags read out via the MIL light but currently can't find chapter-and-verse. So my plan is to pour some Turbo/EGR cleaner in a tank full and go for a thrash, find and try the 'blink' diags method and then, if I am not happy with that, consider a garage based Diags run before any excessive work/expenditure.

yes, 1HD-FTE runs M-OBD comms protocol. I bought a code reader, which also display all engine ecm data live with the engine running. took me three years to actually find one. And as a 35 year diesel mechanic veteran, this finally shone the light on a check engine light i'd lived with for three years / 100,000 kms. I knew i had a coolant sensor fault, but i couldn't pin it down until i could view the live data and see the exact moment it was briefly occurring.

No, it does not run lambda sensor.

Re Cat: There isn't an actual catalyser, but a particulate filter, and it does get blocked. But I agree with 79r that this doesn't sound like your problem here, as a partly blocked part.filter gives a problem at high power, not at low. Typically when going up a long, steep hill. Engine then goes into "slow-mo" and throws an engine light. Stop engine and start again and everything is back to normal. The fault code will often be a Turbo Pressure Fault, because the turbo can't push enough air through the engine with a blocked exhaust. Btw, the 1HD-FTE will still pass environment tests without particulate filter and without egr.

Okay, whatever you reckon. Every exhaust centre i've ever known and spoken with calls it a catalytic converter.

 

[bigone]

Thanks again all. A question for 79R - have you the code reader model number please? Further info which may be related - I have for some long time been experiencing periodic black smoke from the exhaust at high cruising speed - speed not affected when it happens. Starts and then stops in a couple of minutes - normal at tickover. Also, the engine surges occasionally by a few hundred rpm at low throttle openings. When this happens in Cruise it continues for several mins. Related, I wonder?

 

[bigone]

Just noticed that the plug on the reader in the picture is standard OBD shaped. Having checked I have TWO diag plugs - a standard OBD-format next to the brake pivot, under the dash and a small black plastic box on the off-side front wing labelled 'DIAGNOSTICS' - is this usual? Why 2?

 

[bigone]

So I have tracked down a write up of the Blink method to display DTCs from the ECU. It involves connecting pins TE1 & E1 in the diagnostics plug with a bent paperclip then reading the blinks of the MIL with ign on. Trouble is when I opened the Diagnostics box in the engine bay I have no contacts in position TE1 - it's empty! So what does this mean for the diag protocol on my cruiser, I wonder? Is mine an evolution (OBD1 perhaps )and I need to connect another pin to E1 or...?

 

[uHu]

For the blink method, you can use pin 13 (TC) and pin 4 (ground) in the OBD-plug under the dash instead. Read the FSM.

 

[uHu]

No, it does not run lambda sensor.
@ uHu: Okay, whatever you reckon. Every exhaust centre i've ever known and spoken with calls it a catalytic converter.

You are right. And from aug 2002 production onwards it was adopted also in Australia, according to the fsm. In Europe from 1998.
I probably read something on the lcool forum back in the early days, and didn't check the facts. Sorry.

Anyhow, it's made up of a grid of narrow holes, like a bundle of tiny pipes together, and they do get filled up with gunk. When mine was getting blocked, I could hear exhaust being forced out of the spring-loaded joint in front of it when I asked for full power, because of a too high pressure. It would then throw a code (turbo pressure) and go into limp mode. Changed that blob on the pipe and problem gone.

 

[bigone]

Thanks uHu and sorry to be a pain but do you have an FSM page number - I can't find it! Filled up yesterday and put in a can of AR6400-D so going to see if that makes a difference - supposed to clean DPF, ungum turbo vanes etc.

 

[uHu]

For the blink method, you can use pin 13 (TC) and pin 4 (ground) in the OBD-plug under the dash instead. Read the FSM.

This is from page DI-6 in RM617E. You also find it on page DI-6 in RM1179E.
The Diagnostics parts of the FSM (-s different parts) are often the best place to start for hunting down solutions. And before that, it's good to have read the New Car Features section at the beginning of the FSM, as it gives an in-depth understanding of the basics.

 

[HDJ79R]

Thanks again all. A question for 79R - have you the code reader model number please?

The only way i was able to find this reader was through a contact i learned of by stumbling across a fella named MIchael Wallin, who's website is : http://1hdfte.com.au/

To get his attention, i rejoined fakebook after being off fakebook for several years...

If you're on fakebook look up FTE_Mick : Bei Facebook anmelden - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club]

He buys these readers in and sells them, and has sold hundreds to all over the world.

Tell the grumpy old prick, Vic Torious sent you.

The are only guaranteed to work on the engine, not transmission, suspension or other vehicular systems.

Mine cost me less than 400 AUD, and besides my ute itself, was the best investment in it i've made so far...

Oh well, maybe the 3" exhaust with high flow cat and the unichip w/- electronic boost control, which gives it 505NM, runs an equal 1st place for the pure grin factor.

 

[HDJ79R]

Further info which may be related - I have for some long time been experiencing periodic black smoke from the exhaust at high cruising speed - speed not affected when it happens. Starts and then stops in a couple of minutes - normal at tickover. Also, the engine surges occasionally by a few hundred rpm at low throttle openings. When this happens in Cruise it continues for several mins. Related, I wonder?

As i've mentioned before, until i owned my diagnostic tool, it was impossible to know what the ECU is "thinking". When i had my last fault, it drove like i had a throttle position switch error (check engine light came on when backing off to a coast). The original thought of a diagnosis i had was influenced by people who had written about similar symptoms. But once i had the tool, it became blindingly obvious how far off i was, that actually an erroneous coolant temp was the responsible culprit, and even after replacing the sensor still didn't fix it, it wasn't until i could view live data whist driving, i pinned it down to a bad connection in the plug.

I wouldn't like to hazzard a guess what your real issue is until i could view the data, it's not my way to just throw randoms stabs in the dark about it, lest embarrass myself.

And as i said in the beginning, a sensor can be erroneous but still be within an acceptable range, and therefore not even log a fault.

 

[HDJ79R]

Just noticed that the plug on the reader in the picture is standard OBD shaped. Having checked I have TWO diag plugs - a standard OBD-format next to the brake pivot, under the dash and a small black plastic box on the off-side front wing labelled 'DIAGNOSTICS' - is this usual? Why 2?

It's called a DTC connector, if you look it up it's very similar in an evolutionary kind of way to OBD and somewhat backwards compatible in as much as it can be plugged into... "Why" is because in some markets OBD2 was mandated years before in other markets, such in the US it was 2000-ish, yet in Australia, for example, OBD2 not mandated until 2007-ish

For the first two years i had my ute, i didn't realize mine had it either until i became aware of it's existance and went looking for it.

 

[HDJ79R]

.....I probably read something on the lcool forum back in the early days, and didn't check the facts. Sorry.

It's all good, mate.

 

[bigone]

Thanks for all the info uHu & 79R, - really helpful. Have checked out the link you gave and 1hdfte.com REALLY know their stuff - amazing - the DTC reader too! So, given that the MIL light is not on and prior to considering a major investment ( $440AUD ) at this point and the possibility of successfully importing from Oz to the UK, I will give the additive a while to work and check out the Blink codes. I discovered that the reason I couldn't find the details was because my Diags manual download was incomplete! Have them now thanks to your info.
All the best. Brian

 

[uHu]

Free tip:
Instead of an expensive diagnosis tool, you could just get a miniVCI adapter for 30 £ and a free download of TechStream, t0yota's own reader. And it reads all the up to 14 ECUs you might have.

How-To: TechStream In 5 Minutes

Getting Techstream up and running can be a bit of a pain. Hopefully this helps someone get started quickly. Step 1: Purchase an OBD-II / Mini-VCI interface. - I have sold out of my cables and supply chains are back in order, so no reason to purchase more. Anything like this will work: Mini-VCI...

forum.ih8mud.com

What I've found the easiest, is to install TechStream and drivers on an old laptop running WinXP or Win7; but in the linked forum thread you see it can be done on any platform. I just find it convenient to have an old "brick", not connected to any network, ready in the drawer in the garage.

 

[bigone]

Now this sounds more up my £ street! Have done some googling and found what look like complete lead/techstream s/w kits on ebay but before I order, and given the M-OBD/OBD1/OBD2 protocol issues, is it the case that techstream can access ALL Toyota cars diagnostics fitted with a DTC socket - or only the OBD2-based ones, do you know? I have the XP laptop - used it for my Ford diagnostics!