manual v auto

[Crispin]

Part of the problem is that by comparison to other offerings, the Toyota autoboxes are actually pretty woeful in use. My biggest gripe is that they never lock up soon enough, so you're thrashing the TC pointlessly when it's really not necessary under the circumstances.

I found that with the 150 as well. It was all too eager to unlock if the incline changed slightly. It was also very quick to gear down. On the same road the 120 manual (much heavier from mods, less powerful engine) would just lug itself up the hill without slowing.

Still, the auto 'box had loads of pros

 

[Doodle]

Chas, the 100 is the same with OD disengaged.

That's pretty much it Crispin, also when it unlocks it just thrashes the TC and keeps the revs up rather than digging deep and pushing with the available torque. Every LC auto I've driven is like that - 90, pre and post facelift 100, 120 and the 200. It's unnecessary and wastes fuel, the 200 was especially annoying in this respect because it's got such a powerhouse under the bonnet.

 

[Chas]

Chas, the 100 is the same with OD disengaged.

I'm pretty clueless on what it should and shouldn't do, I have the OD engaged all the time and it locks at 40, I've never tried it disengaged, next time I'm out I'll give it a go.

 

[guari]

I've had two LC's. My dad has had LC's all the way from the 40 series upwards for the last 30 years. My first was a 60 with a stick gear which was great and then I bought an 80 with an auto box and while the 80 is an amazing truck, I simply hated the box. All our cars have been petrols, most of them 4.5L.

The 80 I had always felt up bottlenecked at speed. I compared it many times with my dad's 80 (a stick) and the difference was night and day. At some point I started running 33r15 and the auto became even less responsive (understandable though).

There was a time when water seeped into the auto box as the car stalled when fording a deep river and I could only make the oil change two days after when we reached civilization. All kind of problems started showing up with the box to the point I bought a brand new box from toyota.

Then I fitted a trd supercharger and it was awful when paired with the auto. The car would rev to fast for the box to keep up, I would get box temp warning messages all the time. Not fun. In the end I gave up and sold it off.

In contrast we have had such a happy history with LC manual boxes. Reliable, zero fuss, takes a beating without hesitation and keeps on going strong day after day. We have had 70 series in the family that run so well with so little worry.

I do believe technology must be catching yp and auto boxes improving, but my experience with them is that for inclement off roading, there are much better options.

It doesn't help that my first car, a 1.3 toyota starlet, also suffered from reliability problems with it's auto box.

I gotta put a disclaimer that I used to be hard on my rides though..

 

[mussy]

Auto for me, each has their own view...

Doesn't make a difference if off road or not, it's one less thing to think about.... took my first 80 past Senegal to Guinea Bissau and there was no point, I said "I wish i was driving a maunal"

 

[bandsnbrakes]

Auto every time, more reliable in a lot of ways if they are looked after and kept cool.
Drive lovely if ok, trouble is there is loads out there that are worn out with no servicing/maintenance.
Fuel economy about the same overall (again a bad auto slipping will cause fuel economy to dive)
Manuals no thanks (Toyota manual boxes very good, just my opinion that's all).
Only gripe with later 90,100, 200 series is transmission maps, they pull the TC lock up too soon under load (totally agree with you Doodle).

 

[BobMurphy]

I have a manual '95' and an auto '100', the '100' is the first auto I have owned (though I have driven a couple in the past).

I love the manual box, I am old enough to double de-clutch on downchanges and use the box to provide engine braking when setting up for a corner. I hate the feeling of rolling down hills and into bends and having to rely on the brakes all the time (I do drop the auto down a cog but it isn't the same).

When cold, the auto seems to have no go at all - just revs and noise and a feeling of being disconnected from the drive. Its bad enough solo, but with a horse trailer its dreadful. I suspect its not right, but its only got 124,000 miles on the clock and all the fluids are new and clean.

I need to drive a well-sorted 4.2L '100' and see how it compares with mine.

I know the '100' is a ton heavier than the '95' but it really feels like a gutless, ponderous tank. Its a lovely car but I much prefer the '95'. If only it had a 3.5 ton towing limit .

Bob.

 

[Chas]

I'm pretty clueless on what it should and shouldn't do, I have the OD engaged all the time and it locks at 40, I've never tried it disengaged, next time I'm out I'll give it a go.

I tried it today with o/drive disengaged, I got up to just over 50mph and hadn't felt that slight lurch on locking, unless it's harder to detect at a faster speed.

 

[Gary820]

I find it changes smoothly through all the gears, only jolts if it's just changed upto 2nd but speed Is too low and it drops back to 1st.

tc locks up just over 40mph driving Steady.

With the 33's on it is too quick to unlock the tc, bit of an incline or accelerating at speed it'll unlock when doesn't really need to.

The 35's are a different story, bit of incline it stays locked, bigger incline and it'll often stay locked, stab the peddle it'll unlock as can soon drop speed off. Behaves at motorway speeds and only unlocks if needs to. Will happily pull from day 50 mph to 80 mph Without unlocking the tc.

On longer steep inclines with the 35's on I'll quite often hit the o/d switch and let it get revving, otherwise it likes to lock then unlock a couple of times which messes with momentum. Peak power is higher up the revs too so no harm getting it up there.

For the age I think they're a good auto box, knowing how it's going to respond helps get the most from it i think.

 

[toolsplus]

went out playing today and decided that auto's offroad are not for me

did a steep,long rocky wet climb,one i normally avoid,just made it, but it was messy
and the TC got a hammering

i'm sure after today that with a manual box i'll have more fun
more of a challenge
and definitely less messy climbing

 

[Ben]

Ive owned both manual and auto 4x4's and I prefer manual when off road. I've always found autos lack engine braking on steep descents and I'd end up having to use the brakes, where as in a manual it will just walk itself down!

Auto's are without doubt better in dune/sand driving and definitely easier/more comfortable to drive on long trips but I still prefer manual.

 

[Shayne]

 

[Chris]

I've owned both but I'd go auto every single time - on balance for off road that is. However, I'd agree the single biggest differentiator is down hill engine braking. But it's not as big as some people make out. What many owners fail to realise is that in many cases it it's far better to descend in neutral. What they fail to understand is that they are in low range, low gear and the immense torque of the engine is actually trying to push them down the hill. For you auto owners out there, try it. Stick it in neutral and use gentle braking. The increase in control is huge. We took 3 autos and 1 manual to Russia which was the toughest off roading I've ever experienced. And yes I have done a lot. For what we faced, the autos were better. However, out on the open road, heavily loaded, the manual was superior in terms of hills and tight passes. But that's not off road.

 

[Chas]

I've not driven a manual off road, I would imagine a days driving could get quite tiring which is why I prefer an auto. As Chris says engine braking downhill can be a problem, I use low range low gear and haven't had a problem but maybe I haven't been on a steep enough hill, I shall try your suggestion next time Chris.

 

[Chris]

On really steep stuff Chas, such as our favourite hill at Lincomb, descents in an auto can be mildly terrifying. I know the guy in the video is well known and respected but I don't think he full addressed all of the answers.

What you can do is modify an auto and get full control over the valve body. There is kit out there now that can give you as much control over an auto box as you have on a stick shift. Best of both if you like. That's the way I'd go now I think if I had an auto.

 

[Beau]

Yeah, do the torque converter lockup mod and you basically have full control of the box with no slippage. Best of both auto and manual boxes.

 

[uHu]

...but I don't think he full addressed all of the answers....

Of course he didn't. One major difference is that the torque converter gives you about twice as much torque on the wheels with an auto as with a manual.
Torque Converter means that it converts horsepower and RPM to torque, even when standing still. Try that with a manual...