Morocco aftermath

[mussy]

This was my 4th trip to Africa and even though it was the shortest the vehicle has come back with the most problems.

Car is a HDJ 80 12V Auto VX

Gearbox

On the journey down in the Granada mountains the gearbox couldn't get into Drive and felt and made noise like a slipping clutch on a manual. Advice was sought and thereafter we checked the Auto Oil level and put in almost a 1 litre. This helped a lot but not 100% as we continued into Africa the gearbox would act erractic from time to time. This was mainly on hot days and on uphill sections.

The oil was changed 3 times in Africa in order to keep some life in it. On the final change we also removed the sump and cleaned the filter, there was evidence of metal filings inside.

On the 41 hour drive home (only stopping for 4 hours for ferry boarding and crossing) the last 100 km, 11 PM at night the gearbox started to playup and needed careful driving home, but we made it.

I have various options which are

Second hand box and torque convertor from Karl 700 GBP, need to transport to Europe and then labour to remove and fit

Transport the car from Switzerland to Hungary and have a rebuild for around 1000 GBP, transport would be 500 GBP

What do you guys think which is better? Some people tell me if I put in a second hand box I should buy a new torque convertor?


Oil coming into air filter





At the time to return home we changed the air filter which you can imagine was quite dirty after following other cars in the desert. We also noticed that oil around the joins. How bad is this? What could it be?

CV Joints and half Shafts

The common weeping of grease from the ball.When engaged in Diff lock there was clicking noise.

The repair for this is well documented and clear so no help needed. I suppose the half shafts have been in not good enough shaped before setting out.

General

Body has a few scratches and the bonnet 2 scratches and dents from the cyclonic filter flying off. A good polish and all should be ok.


My main ask for help here is the Autobox. What do you guys recommend I should do? Transport/shipping of items is not a problem for me. My own mechanical skills are at high beginner level. What parts should I buy new? All help on this topic is appreciated.

thanks,

Mussy

 

[frank rabbets]

Oil around the joints just means these are leaking. I expect the rubber is hard so the spring clips cannot close up enough. Does the engine use oil? If not the pistons and bores will not be worn. The oil looks very black unless you have been driving through black dust which has stuck to it.

 

[frank rabbets]

P.S. Don't know anything about auto boxes but you could try looking in the WSM to see if there is a symptom/fault chart. Perhaps your existing box could be fixed rather than rebuilt.

 

[Towpack]

The oil round the intake pipe joints is from the breather and by no means unusual. Just clean them up and tighten the clips. You could fit an oil catch can/seperator in the breather pipe which would reduce the amount of oil getting into the inlet tract. I have a manual so I'm not familiar with fault symptoms on the auto boxes but if it's not a quick fix and the box has to come out I would go for (depending on cost) a replacement guaranteed rebuilt box, have the old box rebuilt or fit a used box from a breaker, in that order. Just dropping a used box straight in may be the cheapest option but is always a bit of a gamble. JMO

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Usually the breakers of 80's try and test them to find out which bits are good and which are suspect so a duff auto box is unlikely, however on the flip side of the coin none of these boxes are low mileage units so it may be advisable to have any unit checked out anyway. You didn't say what year yours is, ie the 4 speed or 3 speed+ O/D, can the later box be retro fitted if need be?
Your choice but if its a long term keeper I'd get a guaranteed unit whichever path I chose.

 

[IRLGW]

buy a manual.... they're the best

 

[Chris]

I would say that it's very unlikely to be the torque converter. That's a sort of solid state thing and whilst you can do them in through exceptionally heavy towing and through not changing the TF enough perhaps, they either work or they don't. I wouldn't think that the symptoms that you had were down to the TC. I am no expert or even near on auto boxes but there are a couple of bits that can fail. One is the solenoids (little electrical valves that control the path of the fluid) and the actual bands inside the box. These I understand are a bit like brake shoes and they control the movement of shafts in the box. Wear in them allows slipping. We do know that your fluid wasn't good and this may well be part of the cause if there is wear in the bands. These boxes are exceptionally tough but subject to wear like anything else.

The TC is sort of like a fan in a drum. The engine spins the blades in fluid and that in turn spins the drive. Like stirring your tea effectively. And that's all there is to it. It's a foot across and weighs about 25kg.

I'm sure there are other things that can fail in there but they are the principal components. I bought an 80 with a duff box and tried all of the remedies I could find but in the end I had to put another box in. It's still running.

 

[frank rabbets]

If there are drive bands they may be adjustable. I adjusted many on Borg Warner autos.

 

[mussy]

I would say that it's very unlikely to be the torque converter. That's a sort of solid state thing and whilst you can do them in through exceptionally heavy towing and through not changing the TF enough perhaps, they either work or they don't. I wouldn't think that the symptoms that you had were down to the TC. I am no expert or even near on auto boxes but there are a couple of bits that can fail. One is the solenoids (little electrical valves that control the path of the fluid) and the actual bands inside the box. These I understand are a bit like brake shoes and they control the movement of shafts in the box. Wear in them allows slipping. We do know that your fluid wasn't good and this may well be part of the cause if there is wear in the bands. These boxes are exceptionally tough but subject to wear like anything else.

The TC is sort of like a fan in a drum. The engine spins the blades in fluid and that in turn spins the drive. Like stirring your tea effectively. And that's all there is to it. It's a foot across and weighs about 25kg.

I'm sure there are other things that can fail in there but they are the principal components. I bought an 80 with a duff box and tried all of the remedies I could find but in the end I had to put another box in. It's still running.

Thanks as always, What are your thoughts on the pictures of the oil coming into the air filter?

 

[mussy]

Usually the breakers of 80's try and test them to find out which bits are good and which are suspect so a duff auto box is unlikely, however on the flip side of the coin none of these boxes are low mileage units so it may be advisable to have any unit checked out anyway. You didn't say what year yours is, ie the 4 speed or 3 speed+ O/D, can the later box be retro fitted if need be?
Your choice but if its a long term keeper I'd get a guaranteed unit whichever path I chose.

It is a 94 12v with od, I believe it is A442.

 

[Chris]

Well as other have said, it's very common. Crankcase gases vent through the rocker and are supposed I guess to get burned in the engine via the air intake, but as these are old buses they make quite a bit of oil vapour. You don't wan that in the air filter, naturally. Luckily, it collects in the old pipes and drip out all over the engine. You can probably cure it with new Jubilee clips, but then that oil condensate has to go somewhere. An oil catch can is the obvious answer. Put it in line and gas will go over the top and any liquid will run into the pot.

 

[StarCruiser]

I ran a smear of RTV silicone around my turbo to inlet pipe joints after separating them which has cured the mess that seeps out there under boost. I also replaced the inlet manifold gaskets and did the same with them. Might just do the trick with yours but a catch can sounds favourite in the long run.

 

[mussy]

Well as other have said, it's very common. Crankcase gases vent through the rocker and are supposed I guess to get burned in the engine via the air intake, but as these are old buses they make quite a bit of oil vapour. You don't wan that in the air filter, naturally. Luckily, it collects in the old pipes and drip out all over the engine. You can probably cure it with new Jubilee clips, but then that oil condensate has to go somewhere. An oil catch can is the obvious answer. Put it in line and gas will go over the top and any liquid will run into the pot.

Is there a link or picture of this catch can method.. I have tried the www but not to much luck?

 

[Towpack]

I used one from another vehicle as it just fitted in the space between the head and the air box............




Look on Ebay, there are loads in different shapes and sizes, usually bulkhead mounted.



http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_o...il+catch+can.TRS0&_nkw=oil+catch+can&_sacat=0

 

[Andy]

May be worth having a look at this website, I have dealt with them a few years ago & very knowledgable

http://automatictransmission.com.au/

Andy

 

[Dave2000]

The auto box is toast IMO! Running with a litre of oil missing is the first issue causing overheating, I am guessing the transmission is a high mileage unit right? The auto's in the 80 are tough units but they do eventually fail as the mileage builds.

Next the change of oil and 'metal particles in the filter' statement, this indicates physical damage to the bands and or torque converter bearings, and ultimately the blades hitting the inside of the converter housing. I have never encountered any transmission workshop who would guarantee a new or reconditioned gearbox without replacing the converter.

I would also check the radiator with the built in cooler, flush out the radiator and the oil cooler, most 80's failing in Africa have a common denominator, and that is the auto transmissions overheat, normally the overheat light comes on and the driver pulls up and lets the engine idle and cool the gearbox for about ten minutes and then switch off for an hour, get back on the journey and get the oil changed asap. Give the 'dune bashing' a miss!

IRLGW has it right IMO and IME.

I would go with new clips on the air filter connections and then keep an eye on it, theory is there should not be any oil in there but as the engines again this will happen, you may just be seeing the normal ageing oil getting in there but leaking from the joints. If the oil is truly excessive in the air intake then it is normally the result of 'blowby' compression or overfilled on engine oil, a 'catch tank' is a great short term idea if there is no other remedy than a rebuild.

regards

Dave

 

[Bat21]

It is a 94 12v with od, I believe it is A442.

On your shift lever inside the car does it say 1-2-3-D-N-R-P or, 1-2-D-N-R-P? The early mechanical boxes (123D etc) had no solenoids and I believe were a more robust box.

 

[GeorgeG]

Is there a link or picture of this catch can method.. I have tried the www but not to much luck?

That will give you an idea what it does and how does it looks like.

 

[mussy]

Got the call from the garage in Hungary.....looking at 3000 Euro to fix the car back to normal... told them to send me the breakdown....

 

[mussy]

Flew yesterday to Hungary to collect the car. It was meant to be completed before Christmas so I could drive it back after the festive season....waiting for parts, blah blah blah, usual sh!t.....

Anyway arrive at the garage and take the car for a test drive before paying..... all good just one issue... The speedometer isn't working....mmm strange... Tell the mechanic and the guy has the cheek to say it wasn't working when it came in and there is a part missing.

we put it over the pit and he shows me a white plug which he removes and tells me that there should be a pin connecting which was not there when the car arrived. This of course is impossible as the speedo was working.

Fed up with this muppet, I take the car and for the moment on the road back to Switzerland.

Am am right that this is part number 82251. Quick search on the interweb doesn't bring up much.

Any help advice would be greatly welcomed.

880km till I get home.