Rocking and Rolling

[Steve H]

HI. I have just bought a new caravan with thoughts of retiring next year. I tow with a 98 Colorado LWB which I have 20% uprated Suplex springs front and rear matched with Monroe adventure shocks. The springs and front shocks are from Roughtrax and are just over two years old (24000mls). The rear shocks are about 4/5 years old.When tested the front shocks had a reading of 60 and the rears had 66 on an MOT shock tester. The new caravan bounces the Collie all over the place on minor roads but on motorways is pretty good. The van is running a nose weight of95kgs. I have Whiteline bushes in all the trailing arm and pan hard rods which where all replaced last October. My BIL was following me when I wasn't towing the van and he said that my truck seemed to be wallowing a lot. Not sure what he meant but I feel that it really dips into sharpish corners and wanders a bit. I have a set of Whiteline ARB bushes to fit but other than that not sure what else to do. Can tyres make a difference? I am running Savero GT 265/70/r16 tyres all round at 32psi. The max pressure I can have in the tyres is 35psi cold. The front wishbones have all Superpro bushes in. Any thoughts?

 

[Higgy]

HI. I have just bought a new caravan with thoughts of retiring next year. I tow with a 98 Colorado LWB which I have 20% uprated Suplex springs front and rear matched with Monroe adventure shocks. The springs and front shocks are from Roughtrax and are just over two years old (24000mls). The rear shocks are about 4/5 years old.When tested the front shocks had a reading of 60 and the rears had 66 on an MOT shock tester. The new caravan bounces the Collie all over the place on minor roads but on motorways is pretty good. The van is running a nose weight of95kgs. I have Whiteline bushes in all the trailing arm and pan hard rods which where all replaced last October. My BIL was following me when I wasn't towing the van and he said that my truck seemed to be wallowing a lot. Not sure what he meant but I feel that it really dips into sharpish corners and wanders a bit. I have a set of Whiteline ARB bushes to fit but other than that not sure what else to do. Can tyres make a difference? I am running Savero GT 265/70/r16 tyres all round at 32psi. The max pressure I can have in the tyres is 35psi cold. The front wishbones have all Superpro bushes in. Any thoughts?

Hi steve. I do a lot of trailer work with my LWB Colorado. I run on Kumho Adventure and the pressures are never below 40psi.. its always as steady as a rock. Iv had em on nearly 3 yrs now and there still like new..ish. you can try a bit more air see if it makes any difference.you got nothing to loose , Just let the air out again if your not happy....(I think the max on the Kumhos is 50psi) ps I changed my rear springs and shocks about 4 months ago, the springs were the cheapest on ebay and the shocks were £50 from euro parts it rides abit stiff when empty but no probs with the trailer.

 

[Steve H]

Thanks for the reply, Higgy. I will try putting up the tyre pressures and see what happens. I was running them at 34psi but it was a hard ride. The Suplex springs replaced a pair of Milners uprated springs when one side broke. My new van weighs in at 1500kgs fully loaded, only 200kgs more than my old one. The rear springs seem to bottom out all the time even when empty and especially over sleeping policeman ramps. The Milners ones never did. The Suplex springs are from Roughtrax and they say they fit the Hilux Surf as well as the Colorado but I think they really aren't man enough. I am also thinking of getting the air bags to go inside the rear springs but not sure at the moment. Do you remember who you got your springs from or have a link to the site at all?

 

[Higgy]

Thanks for the reply, Higgy. I will try putting up the tyre pressures and see what happens. I was running them at 34psi but it was a hard ride. The Suplex springs replaced a pair of Milners uprated springs when one side broke. My new van weighs in at 1500kgs fully loaded, only 200kgs more than my old one. The rear springs seem to bottom out all the time even when empty and especially over sleeping policeman ramps. The Milners ones never did. The Suplex springs are from Roughtrax and they say they fit the Hilux Surf as well as the Colorado but I think they really aren't man enough. I am also thinking of getting the air bags to go inside the rear springs but not sure at the moment. Do you remember who you got your springs from or have a link to the site at all?

Cant find the link for the springs, but they were called Kilin, or Kilnin or something they were painted orange and were about £60 They were on offer, sorry I cant be more help..

 

[ren]

Kilen
https://www.kilensprings.com/ Looks like you may want the 64023 LWB Heavy Duty version going by their online catalogue (64022 is standard LWB).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=kilen+64023&_sacat=0&_sop=15
with this pair appearing the best deal Kilen HD when I looked... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Coil-...=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=kilen+64023&_from=R40&rt=nc

Autodoc do have them & others but make sure you pick a "95" one & a good price with 21% off at the moment... https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts...er/land-cruiser-90-j9/5697-3-0-td-kzj90-kzj95

ECP / CP4L seem to only have the standard duty SWB ones at the moment. GSF & Mister Auto no Colorado springs.

Euro4x4parts a bit steep & no brand.

Micks Garage have them but the Kilen are much steeper from them although they have others... https://www.micksgarage.com/d/coil-...o-1998/3-0-td-kzj90_-kzj95_-125-2982/products

I have uses Lesjofors & Sachs in the past on other vehicles with good results but my KZJ95 has whatever it came with which is probably factory. I would be tempted to go with what Higgy knows works well and they are a good brand. I tow a 1150Kg van.

 

[Chris]

Sounds like you'd be better off with a set of airbag spring helpers. Just what they are designed for really. See Matt Savage's web shop for details. Nose weight could be reduced a bit though I'd say.

 

[ren]

My Toyota LC owners manual (pages 191,192,259) says that Nose Weight for the Colorado should be more than 25kg & more than 4% of towing capacity (112kg for braked or 30kg un-braked) but always less than the max draw bar weight (130kg for Colorado 9X or less if hitch is rated lower as tow hitches fitted to vehicles first driven before 1st August 1998 did not have to be type approved). Furthermore the sum of curb mass, driver passengers, hitch & nose weight must not exceed Gross Vehicle Mass (2710kg for 5VZ-FE or 2750kg for 1KZ-TE) by more than 100kg and the load on the rear axle must not exceed the maximum permissible rear axle capacity (1700kg) by more than 15% (255kg). Applicable & tested at Sea Level. It also says if GVM or max axle capacity is exceeded, do not drive at a speed of more than 100km/h (62mph) - which of course we would never do if towing in the UK anyway.
For other vehicles GVM & Axle Capacity should be on the Manufacturers Plate on the vehicle and the hitch load should be on the hitch if type approved or obtainable from the manufacturer.
My caravan owners manual says nose weight is usually between 50 & 75kg and covers models from 900 to 1600kg.

 

[Higgy]

Ren has just reminded me ... the shocks were Sachs from europarts they were £48... I even asked why they were so cheap..They were just on offer that's all.. .... I agree with Chris. id be tempted to look at the caravan and how its weight is distributed ...too much or even not enough weight on the draw bar can have it doing strange things... good luck.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Sounds like you'd be better off with a set of airbag spring helpers. Just what they are designed for really. See Matt Savage's web shop for details. Nose weight could be reduced a bit though I'd say.

+1 on the suggestion of air bags. With trial and error varying the pressures you should get it just right. Having springs too hard will spoil the ride and ultimately the pleasure of owning it, ( I know having fitted a pedders kit to my D4D) . I tolerated the ride for a couple of years and have now sold it. If you don.t want it lifted then new/good S/H Toyo springs and air bags would be the way I'd go.

 

[ren]

I looked at some air bags out of curiosity & they do seem a useful solution and decent value too and I also respect the opinion of those with experience of them.

My only concern is the comment from Steve H that said....

"My BIL was following me when I wasn't towing the van and he said that my truck seemed to be wallowing a lot. Not sure what he meant but I feel that it really dips into sharpish corners and wanders a bit."​

....which makes me wonder if it is best to sort the basics out so that the air bags are not trying to fix an underlying issue in addition to their role of stiffening up for the weight of the van. Furthermore I would expect that the OE springs will be progressive and if new enough & undamaged ought to compensate pretty well the design load of the vehicle and it's towing limits. Let's face it this is a Toyota LC we are talking about here. I also note that Steve H states his springs are Suplex from Roughtrax and that Roughtrax are only listing Pedders springs for the LWB Colorado 95 on their site currently which makes me wonder whether Roughtrax are not happy enough with the Suplex to be stocking them now for the 95 & given that I am also under the impression that Roughtrax are keen to maintain quality standards. Before rushing out to change them read on...

@Steve H - As you have the Whiteline ARB bushes anyway and they're relatively easy to swap it's got to be worth putting them in to see if it helps before shelling out for anything else especially as it will affect roll / wallowing if the old ones are a bit dodgy. Also check the links for wear (Front & Rear). Try also the max 35psi when cold but if you keep it at that watch the wear pattern.

I've had my Collie less than a year and put on General Grabber GT in the standard 265/70R16 size about a month after getting it and run at factory pressure of 29psi for mostly road use but I reckon I should be running them higher. I ought to chalk test them. Lets face it these vehicles are designed to run over such a variety of surfaces and with a wide variety of tire makes, sizes and load ratings so Toyota have just got to take a compromising punt when they state the recommended pressure. The experienced off road drivers will be airing down when appropriate anyway.

The "wanders a bit" also makes me suspect bushes or maybe ball joints. What are the steering bushes like & the rack ends?

My apologies @Steve H for not thinking your first post through in more detail before replying earlier.

Also I will throw in that I am ignorant of the shock tester figures Steve H refers to as I am only familiar with bounce test and checking for leaks, damage, bushes and handling as an assessment of dampers. I'm guessing the higher the figure the better so the rears should be OK as higher score than the front and the fronts are so youthful.

 

[Steve H]

HI. Sorry for the late reply. Thank you for all your suggestions and help. I have started with two new tyres on the back as I had to replace them anyway. Droplinks are on order to be replaced as the rubbers are split on the front two. The rest I will have to sort out when I return from holiday. I will let you know more later. Once again thank you for all the info and ideas.

 

[Shayne]

I only just seen this thread and i have Pedders 90 series heavy duty rear shocks (for towing) sitting in my shed waiting to go on ebay .

 

[Bob]

I tow a lot with my 95. Never anything but stable with a trailer behind, with everything from box vans to more weight in stone than I should have had. That's on original springs from new. Run my tyres at 36psi, and no special stabilisers on the hitch coupling. The Colorado is well built for towing, so a caravan shouldn't pose problems. Bushes and springs would be my bet.

As for the shock performance in MOTs, I asked a tester here before, and it's the imbalance they are concerned about. Once the rate is similar on both sides, and the shocks aren't leaking, they will pass. Mine even passed with worn shock bushes once.

 

[Steve H]

Hi. Just back from hols towing the van to Henley on Thames, about 70 miles. New tyres made a bit of difference but still an interesting ride with a sideways slide on one corner. Not sure if tarmac was close to melting as it was a very hot day and looking back road was very shiny. New drop links arrived so this weekend ARB's will be off and new bushes and links fitted, weather permitting. I will also be checking all trailing arm bushes while I am under there. On another note does anybody know if 120 rear springs will fit the 90 series? I am looking at a pair on eBay and thinking about fitting them along with air bags so as not to have too hard a ride . My truck is a daily drive.
Shayne I will PM you about the shocks if you still have them. I take they are not lifted ones?
Thank you for all your suggestions once again.

 

[Steve H]

Sorry for the late update.
Since my last post I have replaced all the anti roll bar bushes front and back, new drop links fitted front and rear(Roughtrax). The links are a bit stronger/thicker than standard and have stopped the body roll a fair bit. Old links looked ok but when I took them off had loads of play. Also cured a knock in the front when going off drive onto road.
Still looking for a decent set of rear standard springs to fit along with air bags I think. Thats why I asked about 120 rear springs fitting on a Collie. Know of a breaker with one that still has the springs on it.
Having towed the caravan with the new bits fitted it's now more stable but bottoms out easily .
Thanks to you all for the suggestions and ideas. Not sure about upgrading to a newer D4D or 120 as I do enjoy driving the collie just need to get the ride right.

Thanks again

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Sorry for the late update.
Since my last post I have replaced all the anti roll bar bushes front and back, new drop links fitted front and rear(Roughtrax). The links are a bit stronger/thicker than standard and have stopped the body roll a fair bit. Old links looked ok but when I took them off had loads of play. Also cured a knock in the front when going off drive onto road.
Still looking for a decent set of rear standard springs to fit along with air bags I think. Thats why I asked about 120 rear springs fitting on a Collie. Know of a breaker with one that still has the springs on it.
Having towed the caravan with the new bits fitted it's now more stable but bottoms out easily .
Thanks to you all for the suggestions and ideas. Not sure about upgrading to a newer D4D or 120 as I do enjoy driving the collie just need to get the ride right.

Thanks again

The rear springs are completely different from a Collie to a 120, I checked this out when I got my 120.

 

[Steve H]

Thanks for that, Andy. Will look for a set of Collie springs instead

 

[garygiles1963]

HI

I find when towing my Carvan in my 120, the sports mode is best, which I'm guessing is the hardest setting. Switched to anything else, feels like your riding the waves.

G.