Sergeant Alexander Blackman

[clivehorridge]

Retaliations from who? Unless the prison is over run by beardie types I suspect he will be treated like a hero.

Well I presumed that there was concern of retaliations from convicted terrorists.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-A-named-as-Sgt-Alexander-Wayne-Blackman.html

 

[Shayne]

A very respectable and wise response Clive , perhaps this why they send "boys" to war with promises of guts and glory instead of mature adults with enough of life's experience outside of the military to contemplate the orders given and the rules set .

 

[clivehorridge]

A very respectable and wise response Clive , perhaps this why they send "boys" to war with promises of guts and glory instead of mature adults with enough of life's experience outside of the military to contemplate the orders given and the rules set .

Probably very true Shayne. The cannon fodder should not be too worldly wise. otherwise they'd realise that they were just being sacrificed for some political points scoring [Thatcher and the Falklands].

Don't get me wrong, I'm no puritan and I know blind eyes are turned on many occasions. But the transcript from that event (the one in the link I posted) is not one to proud of.

An interesting thread Shayne, it's brought me back into UK news a little bit, and caused some serious thinking amongst the readers, I imagine. It did with me anyway. The guys in the Apache were heroes and Sergeant Blackman the criminal. Doesn't make sense. That's because war doesn't make sense. You can't make sense of nonsence.

 

[Shayne]

This is worse than Falklands and Thatcher Clive , Afghanistan is all about America wanting to steal land because they have no major military base in that corner of the world . Hence the war will continue regardless of consequence until that base is established . That's my take on it anyway .

With regards to the vid - he was showing off no doubt but would i want a 6ft 3" decorated Marine of 15 years experience who can quote Shakespeare and end a life that had very little chance of survival anyway with calm unemotional dispatch standing next to my son in the senseless chaos that is war ? The answer remains an absolute yes .

The larger question of right or wrong i guess will be answered when action against British forces become more courageous and applications to join the Marines dwindle to single figures .

 

[clivehorridge]

It was only an example, at least Afganistan may be strategic enough to fight over, I personally don't think the Falklands were.

And it's not only America Shayne, Britain and the whole of Europe and even Russia are all behind this one.

 

[Chas]

, I personally don't think the Falklands were.

As far as I can remember it was about protecting the Islanders wishes, but knowing politicians/governments I'm sure there were ulterior motives.

 

[wobbly]

Seems to me there are two issues.

Did he murder the man? Seems to be pretty clear, he shot an unarmed wounded enemy who posed no threat, thats murder.

Was he wrong? No. The man needed to die - he had made a choice, and had to live (and die) by that choice.

Life is full of contradictions. Sergeant Blackman knew what he was doing was wrong, and like the Taliban he shot, he has to live by his decisions.

 

[fridayman]

15 years and 6 tours of exemplary service, but we still defer to a (flawed in my opinion) political agreement to determine whether his actions were appropriate. The enemy are hanging his comrades body parts on trees... and we're jailing him for killing one at an inappropriate time!? I've signed the e-petition for his release.

 

[Shayne]

The vid i seen was subtitled and typically i can't find it now , shows Blackman asked his squad if any wanted to give the Taliban medical attention (or words to that effect) which they didn't , i remember someone saying something like "he's going south mate" which to me suggests the prisoner was dying slowly and painfully . All i have read about Blackman suggests , to me anyway , he pulled the trigger with a clear conscience that it was the right thing to do from a professional and humane point of view . It was his words that condemned him , words spoken with the same bravado that earned him so much respect throughout his career .

 

[Chas]

I've signed that petition, if anyone else wants to this is the link for it;

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56810

 

[clivehorridge]

Despite how I feel, I've signed it. For me there's too much doubt about the intent for a murder verdict.

 

[Graham]

15 years and 6 tours of exemplary service, but we still defer to a (flawed in my opinion) political agreement to determine whether his actions were appropriate. The enemy are hanging his comrades body parts on trees... and we're jailing him for killing one at an inappropriate time!? I've signed the e-petition for his release.

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Please give me the linky, I and many others also want to sign for his release.

Gra.

Found the link in the next post, and we have both signed it.

 

[yogi]

My Father was in the RAF and sought some comfort throughout 6 years and 32 bombing missions, that he was hitting military and munitions manufacturing targets. When he found out that his last mission was bombing Dresden, he was sickened and it almost destroyed him. He carried out his orders, but for the first time in his military career, he did not agree with them.

Sorry to say, Sergeant Blackman shamed the force, his country and himself. What he did was a war crime and the Court came to the correct verdict. This is not my opinion, its a fact.

He may well have been a first class soldier and one that trained and learned the crafts of war to perfection. What he did, and it seems encouraged by those in his unit, was wrong.

The controvacy seems to be in whether he should retain his anonymity or have his identity exposed. If the prison supervisors cannot control their inmates, then he is doomed to a prison life of retaliations. He should have thought of that before he murdered the prisoner.

The enemy's atrocoties do not make it right for British (or US) troops to stoop to their barbarism.

As for Shayne's original thread question, my response is no. If my son or daughter were to become unlucky enough to be serving in the forces one day, I would want them to go to battle with someone with more moral fiber than just being good at killing the fcukers.

Military training includes more than just producing mindless Rambo's. The Military should behave honourably.

Sergeant Blackman demonstrated a total lack of honour and humanity.

Extremely well put Clive, I have every respect for those that give their lives or a portion of it over to the service. If I question the morals of the politicians who decide who they should fight that is an entirely different thing. Like yourself I'm no longer in the UK but I do take pride in being British and the very strong sense of 'fair play' which that entails. To me this is not an action becoming to those ideals at all. As such therefore he deserved to be punished, and punished he was.

However for me that punishment was very severe and heavy handed, clearly politically motivated, and politics is something that should be kept out of the legal system at all costs.

 

[clivehorridge]

AFAIK he was tried by court Marshall. That I presume replaces or runs in parallel with the "legal system". It's unlikely that he would be acquitted, but his sentence could be reduced. I'm surmising all this, but it may be a possibility. That's what I believe is the intention of the petition.

 

[clivehorridge]

The vid i seen was subtitled and typically i can't find it now , shows Blackman asked his squad if any wanted to give the Taliban medical attention (or words to that effect) which they didn't , i remember someone saying something like "he's going south mate" which to me suggests the prisoner was dying slowly and painfully . All i have read about Blackman suggests , to me anyway , he pulled the trigger with a clear conscience that it was the right thing to do from a professional and humane point of view . It was his words that condemned him , words spoken with the same bravado that earned him so much respect throughout his career .

Sorry Shayne, but I can't agree at all.

I can't think of any similar situation in civvy street, (and I'll accept it a bad example) but if you hit someone in your car on a deserted country lane at 3:00am, the victim is close to death, there's no hospital for 50 miles and you don't have a mobile phone, reversing over his head on humane grounds wouldn't win you an iota of sympathy, would it? The right thing to do would be to bundle him into the car and try to get help, or pile him high with warm clothing and leave him, to get help.

You can't have it both ways. The convention they were fighting under is the law. It says you take the injured captive and administer medical assistance. They did neither and shot him like a dog. He may well have deserved that, but it wasn't a call that those troops had. They murdered him.

 

[Shayne]

I suppose your right Clive he could have done exactly the same thing with a morphine overdose and everything would be fine - but he didn't .

Can't accept the civvy street argument though , what if that guy you hit had just inflicted untold horror upon your family , how would react then .

 

[clivehorridge]

That's the point Shayne, it wouldn't matter how I reacted, it wouldn't make it legal or the right thing to do, would it. If he'd done atrocious things to my family, I'd have probably cut all his extremities off with a dirty blunt saw, but it wouldn't be legal or right.

That's the point I'm trying to make. I have little or no sympathy for the victim.

 

[Graham]

Can't accept any civvy street connection.

The only other way it could have been done was by, now let me think,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Oh yes, lets de-capitate him, because that's a humane way, isn't that what the buggers said down London way?

Animals,

Yeah, save the slug, just saw his rag-top head off.

Gra.

 

[moggy1968]

Is he guilty of murder...yes, clearly. we're not talking about the finer points of the ROE or the yellow card here but a clear breach of the Geneva Convention which should be ingrained in every soldiers mind.

Were there extenuating circumstances... yes, if the papers are to be believed(!!??)and these should be considered when sentencing is decided.

Extenuating circumstances does not put you outside the law, it just mitigates the punishment.

 

[Shayne]

Ain't it it great when friends can debate matters of such personal principal agreeing and disagreeing to various degree on different points without descending into bitter argument

Only Blackman knows what truly happened and i'm unsure why i feel so strongly that he deserves our support but think about the man , an exemplary career , a wife and children , wiped out and him sentenced to life in prison because he used a bullet instead of a syringe .