To Dealer or not to Dealer

[Hutton]

Accepting that to keep your vehicle in warranty you have to go to a main dealer, I am more and more convinced that this main dealer stamp in your service book is nonsense. Also, my local dealer is about give up the Toyota franchise which means my nearest dealer will be a 3 hour round trip. If the work the dealer does is marvellous and at a reasonable cost with mechanics full of knowledge then I would go to a dealer. However, my experience is the opposite. Independent workshops have served me far better with good guaranteed work at less than the dealer charges. The point I am trying to make is why is so much emphasis placed on having dealer stamps in your service book when you come to sell the vehicle?

 

[Dave_S]

Pretty sure you don't need to use a dealer for any servicing work - your warranty is subject to the necessary work being completed with the appropriate lubricants, filters, etc (I'm sure this was discussed previously on here?).

But in any case, I tend to agree with you - I'll trust a one-man-band who knows his stuff over a franchise. I guess the biggest challenge with more modern stuff is access to the right diagnostic equipment... FWIW I use a one-man-band for any work on the 80 that I don't do myself, and a local Ford garage for the Hilux (they've a much better service record than the nearest Toyota franchise, and I bought the Lux off them originally).

 

[Towpack]

Many people regard a full MDSH as a guarantee that the service schedule has been followed to the letter and done correctly regardless of cost which can be the case of course. It's just a shame that dealer servicing in general can be tarnished by dealers with poor after sales service, unreliable work and high pricing. The more expensive and costly the vehicle the more reliance seems to be placed on such a service history. I'm also of your opinion due to past experiences having had service at both ends of the scale from main dealers. My Dad had a few Beemers in his last few driving years and had some great service from a local independent specialist dealer after poor service from a franchised dealer. Anyone buying any vehicle as an enthusiast will almost certainly look beyond the service history and do their own checks but for many it will be the first and most important thing they look for.

 

[karl2000]

I think it probably depends on the vehicle, the age of it and who you're flogging it to.

I bet most people here wouldnt be massively impressed with a dealer stamp over an independent stamp. Or even for older vehicles, evidence of jobs done by an enthusiastic home mechanic.

Eg, If your transfer box went, who would you want fixing it, Toyota or Bob? No contest really........

 

[Juddian]

The only vehicle i've ever owned new enough to require official servicing to maintain warranty was the Hilux we bought new in 2007.

My experience was, that the dealer's service schedule was fairly priced and the work quality good.
Toyota at the time (dunno about now) were just about the only maker to specify full brake strip clean lube up servicing on every major service (so every 20k miles or every other year), and yes they did the job properly because i checked, they also replaced all transmission oils at the same time as part of a major service.

Engine oil was highly priced on the service, but i asked at the desk and they were happy for me to supply my own oil (Millers at the time) which netted me around a £50 saving on each service after paying for the Millers which was bought in multiple packs.
In theory you could buy the well priced genuine oil over the parts counter and ask they use that on the service.

Keep servicing within the dealer network amd you get a lot of benefits with Toyota, breakdown cover, goodwill (Toyota well know for standing by their product if you play the game), and these days maybe you get another year's warranty after a full service.

No i wouldn't want to be paying dealer prices for brake relines, but if the brakes are getting thereabouts you can replace the discs/pads yourself with high quality parts befiore submitting the vehicle for service.
The brakes on the Hilux were the original Sumitomo pads and linings, they lacked any sort of bite and i replaced them in short order with MIntex parts, the model was new at the time and only MIntex pattern parts were available ( would probably have gone Brembo by choice), the brakes were much better after that and the dealer never said a word about the swap.
I'd also had the vehicle fully rustpoofed and they never gave that a mention either.

To sum up, Toyota is the only maker i'd consider buying new from and would try to maintain a dealer service history for as long as the warranty (what 10 years now?) could be maintained.

 

[guyc]

Funnily enough I've just taken my 200 to Toyota for a service. We are going away in it, I was running out of time and Toyota were offering a 12 month warranty if the vehicle was less that 10 years old and 100,000 miles, which mine qualifies for.

I added a couple of options to the service and took advantage of their complimentary valet. They did the service when they said they would and sent me a video walkround of the underside of the truck, which I quite liked.

The two things that the customer notices about a service is the bill and the complimentary valet. Whilst the bill for the service was £520, this obviously wasn't high enough to warrant them cleaning the roof of the truck at all and the rest of the valet was only cursory. The truck went in for a service missing a dust cap on one of the tyres and was returned with a dust cap missing. Would it have been too much to ask to replace it?

One item that they picked up were the rear brake pads were getting low and would I like them replaced for £250? £67 inc VAT from Roughtrax - I'll do it myself thank you even though I am short of time. I can put the £180 saving towards its Oliver Reed penchant for diesel.

Overall I was less than impressed with the service from Toyota and I left a poor review. That was met by an immediate and stock response of that falls below our usual standards and we'll investigate. I've yet to hear anythng back.

Hopefully they took a bit more care / pride with the non-visible bits of the service but it won't go back to Toyota for anything in the future.

 

[Shayne]

While I appreciate Juddian's comments I think its a rare occurrence that full main dealer service history relates to a vehicle previously owned by someone with any mechanical sympathy or understanding .

All main dealers have to maintain new vehicles for 3 years or whatever and obviously its in the networks best interest to sell extended warranties . But theres a cut off point where it seems you are offending them by not replacing your car with a new one .

Toyota main dealer fitted me a new clutch at daft expense and it lasted exactly one year , how they achieved that i really don't know i can only guess they put a used one in ?

Daughter in law went to a different Toyota main dealer for her Corollas mot and called me panicking because they insisted the car wasn't drivable if she didn't pay something like £350 to have the aircon regassed !

So for me FMDSH means money to burn , and if it was over 10 years old and on a main stealers forecourt then i would expect the ink in the service book to still be wet .

 

[Juddian]

Maybe i got some preferential treatment at the service desk, seems my experience is not exactly common.
I used to deliver lots of new cars to the dealership which is our nearest anyway and when i bought it they surprisingly let me have it at staff discount, maybe service also realised i was a regular transporter driver too.
It was a family business at the time which has since been taken over by a larger group, since the takeover i had the cambelt on the 3.4 V6 Collie replaced there, lots of new staff far as i can see so chances are any mate's rates or colleague care no longer apply, but their quote was cheaper than any indy offered by some £200.
Talking of clutches, the family Aygo clutch was on the way out about 3 years ago, Toyota Watford quoted some £700 to change that, our local indy fitted a new Sachs unit for £280 all inc.

The Hilux's service history and condition for the photos did it no harm at sale time, usual chancers offered peanuts but a dealer offered pretty well what i wanted over the phone sight unseen and paid me by transfer the same day, next day his driver arrived on the train and whisked it away, dealer contacted me later on to thank me for a good straight deal which was reciprocated.

I take the point about those who are mechanically minded doing almost all their own work, as i do now and always have done (save for complicated or heavy graft cos i aint getting any younger), but i'd still want to keep the dealer history valid whilst goodwill, or in this case, Toyota's 10 year warranty, can be had.
How long one intends to keep the vehicle has some bearing, selling an under 10 year old LC would probably be best to keep the Toyota history up, especially if trading in for new or approved used, once over 10 years old then it's entering the realms of people who probably know a fair bit about vehicle maintenance, and can tell within 5 minutes if its been been looked after or not.

Not all dealer workshops operate to the same standards it appears.

As an aside, yes we've seen how the prices being asked for used LC's has gone frankly silly, do we think this will continue or do we see prices levelling or becoming more realistci.

 

[Shayne]

What your describing there Juddian is the difficult to explain sense of community being lost to corporate takeover of all and everything . The best garages don't advertise , they ain't pristine and clean , they fix things rather than replace parts until it works again , they understand how and why a vehicle works .

Perhaps its aversion to being dependent on main dealers driving prices up , the newer the car the more digitally impossible it becomes to repair , even main dealers don't know how or why it all works but they do have a very expensive plug in reset button which nets them about £100 a minute in fees .

 

[karl2000]

Even within stealerships, some are probably better than others.

Few years ago I was changing from summer to winter wheels on my Mercedes ML. Wheel nut key snapped half way through.

Went to MB Liverpool to order a new key and asked if I could borrow one for 5 mins to crack the locking bolts off so I could replace them with normal ones and wouldn't be off the road.

Parts manager comes out - "what? We can't be lending out TOOLS Sir". I suggested he could come and do it then, but either he didn't want to get his fancy shirt wet in the rain or wouldn't have known which end of the spanner to use. I managed to leave without swearing. (Probably just the person - it wouldnt have happened with the parts manager I knew there 20 years ago)

Went to MB Warrington, explained situation. He gave me the box of locking wheel nut keys and told me to have fun . Sorted then went back and ordered the key off them!

 

[TonyP]

For ease I used to always get my 120 serviced at the dealer that I bought it, up untill it was about 12 years old. I did do the disks and pads myself, as I know I would do a good job.

The thing that pissed me off was at the last service, I got the usual report back saying brake, fluid, pads and pollen filter needed changing. I questioned the items as I had changed the pollen filter a couple of weeks before as I had found one in my shed. I told the service agent to just finish the basic service and leave the rest.

When I got there I challenged them and asked why would a perfectly good filter need changing, and the response was that they always say to change it regardless. That was the last time they did the service, and I now do it all myself, or use a local garage for the harder to do bits like wheel bearings etc.

Cars not worth much now at 17 years old, and a FDSH is not worth that much.

 

[Bob]

I echo the sentiment that it varies wildly from dealer to dealer. I've looked after almost everything on my cruiser since I bought it (from a main Toyota dealer) in 2008. It was only 5 years old then, so the history was important. I knew it was a long term ownership so did it all myself, because I couldn't stomach main dealer prices for a 2nd year apprentice to be doing the work.

On the other hand, the Rav4 we bought 18 months ago heads back in to the main dealer (not the same one as I bought the cruiser in) for its services. It did get an engine replacement under warranty so its essentially new, and worth keeping it with the dealer in case of any other issues. I guess I'm lucky that the dealer I use is very good and the mechanic comes out for a chat when you collect the car.

 

[Tractionman]

I think that's a valid point, about changing parts even though they can see they are new/been changed recently. Staff programmed for a task that uses no logic or common sense, and sometimes no skills.
A full service history should be just that, with everything done included, - the clue is in the title.
As I have said before, if buying a vehicle advertised as having that , it should have receipts to back it up, not just a book full of dealer stamps and the odd note at the correct mileage.
As far as I'm concerned, without receipts it didnt happen ! Even then you have to be wary.
That is why I ignore all being shown to me, used my own common sense and do my own investigations, as we all would.
Sadly, there are those that are easily taken in, and as long as the paintwork is shiney, - all ok.

 

[Dave_S]

Quick story re my local Toyota franchise - lost a centre cap from my Lux and popped in to see if they could get one.

Parts guy looked online and concluded that mine were aftermarket wheels (they aren't!) and they couldn't help.

I got on my mobile, found the part and the specific (genuine) part number for the centre cap - told this to the parts guy.

He still couldn't find it and said I was mistaken.

Ordered one from Toyota direct and had in the post a couple of days later.

Read into that what you will... but I wouldn't used Jacksons Toyota unless they were literally the last resort.

 

[Shayne]

It was Jacksons who fitted my dodgy clutch and stole my Haynes manual

 

[Dave_S]

Doesn't surprise me Shayne. All they care about is selling cars, not serving their customers. Shame they have a monopoly on many of the big marques on the rock.

 

[karl2000]

stole my Haynes manual

haha how did they manage that?

 

[Tractionman]

I think they needed it more, to increase their knowledge of how to do work on lc's !

 

[Shayne]

It lived in the back door pocket two days later i noticed it gone and went back but they denied all knowledge

 

[Tractionman]

Main stealers indeed !!