Torsion bars: scheme and part number wanted

[Jureb]

Hi all,

My 95 tilts to the left (driver's side) just a little bit. I don't notice it when I drive but when you look at the car from the front you can see it tilts to the left. When I look the car from the back I don't notice any tilting, so it only sags on the front left side. The distance between the center of the front left wheel and the wheel arch is 1cm less than it's right counterpart. My mechanic inspected this and told me that my torsion bars are worn out/stretched out. I suppose I will need new torsion bars.
I was trying to find a scheme and part number for the torsion bars (I use this website for that Toyota Land Cruiser Prado - KDJ95L-GKPNYW complectation - Genuine parts - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club]) and I wasn't successful. Does anyone know the part numbers or can source a scheme for torsion bars?

 

[Bert]

Have you tried Amayama.com?

 

[Jureb]

Have you tried Amayama.com?

Yes I have, didn't find it...

 

[Jureb]

I'm not sure my LC is even equipped with torsion bars... I have to inspect it. Does anybody know if these cars even have (front) torsion bars? I'm wondering what could cause the tilt, maybe a worn out front cabin-frame mount.

 

[diggerdave]

Sometimes people use the term torsion bar to mean anti-roll bar. Otherwise no, LCs don't have torsion bar suspension. He might have meant coil spring, which could of course cause your problem.

 

[BobMurphy]

I'm not sure my LC is even equipped with torsion bars... I have to inspect it. Does anybody know if these cars even have (front) torsion bars? I'm wondering what could cause the tilt, maybe a worn out front cabin-frame mount.

You have a '90-Series' Land Cruiser (a Prado or Colorado) - they don't have torsion bars.

However, the 100-series 'Amazon' (the one with independent front suspension) does have torsion bars, so I suspect your mechanic is getting confused between the models.

The 'sag' is probably caused by a worn or broken spring, though it could be a tight suspension bush not allowing the body to lift back to its correct height. Its worth jacking up the car on axle stands under the chassis rails and checking for wear/play/seizure everywhere.

If the front lower ball joints are old . . . Replace them NOW - they can spring apart without much warning (its a very bad design fault - corrected on later models).

Anorak corner:- an Anti-roll bar is also a torsion bar and so is a coil spring in reality (but we don't call them that). The anti-roll bar shouldn't cause a difference in ride height as they only come into play when one side of the suspension is raised or lowered out of alignment with the other side, their steady state is to keep both sides equal.

Bob.

 

[Jureb]

I had the front (and back) shock absorbers changed last year, coil springs weren't looking bad. I also had front (and back) stabilizer links changed, stabilizer mountings, tie rod ends but not the lower ball joints. I'll jack up the car and inspect for wear. I'll change front lower ball joints, I wasn't aware of this fault, thanks. There shouldn't be any play in the other bushings as everything was checked before the repairs, but there is a sag so it has to be checked again.
Is there any other way to tell if the coil spring is bad? The car drives fine to be honest so I wouldn't say the coil spring is bad from that perspective. It doesn't look broken or visually bad. Maybe I could measure the distance between 2 coils (pitch) and compare it to the measurement on the right side of the car (a wild guess)? Or maybe the new stabilizer link was installed "too tight" on the sagging side.

EDIT: the left side stabilizer link was broken before it was changed (it was hanging few centimeters away from the anti roll bar/stabilizer bar). Maybe it broke because the left side of the car was compressed too much at one point (bad coil spring indicator) and the old stabilizer link broke, another wild guess.

 

[BobMurphy]

Lower ball joints are not easy to check. The joint is being constantly pulled apart and the ball gradually works its way out of the cup and then . . . . .

This one had passed the MOT two months earlier !

If in doubt - change them.

Regarding the 'sag', ideally remove both front springs and stand them side by side and compare the heights - that's not too bad a job on a '90'.

You'll probably end-up putting new front springs on anyway .

Bob.

 

[Jureb]

I'll get the ball joints changed 100% very soon as they must be very old. The previous owner didn't take too much care of the car so I'm sure they need to get changed. Like i said I had all bad bushes changed last year (after I bought the car) but not all, this lower ball joint fault is new to me . Thank you again.
The top picture is a f***ing catastrophe...

Regarding the front springs:
The car has 303k km at the moment and I'm pretty sure these are the original springs, changing them wouldn't hurt. I will have to inspect them again or ideally compare them.

 

[diggerdave]

Front ball joint...

 

[karl2000]

Another one...

 

[Jureb]

I'll change these lower ball joints because I think they're very old. Would you recommend getting original Toyota lower ball joints since it's such an important component or get an aftermarket one? Original Toyota LBJ costs 6x more though.

 

[BobMurphy]

I think I got my lower Ball Joints from Roughtrax (though it may have been Milners), They lasted until I laid the car up. When it eventually re-surfaces I'll put Toyota joints on it. It is a very bad design and its not worth the risk of using cheap pattern components (though the ones from reliable sources should have passed the 'fitness for purpose' test).

Go for Toyota if you can afford them.

Bob.

I was lucky . . Four adults and two large horses heading for the M90 Motorway (and the Forth Road Bridge). The joint went on a quiet 'A' road two miles from the bridge. It could have been very nasty.

 

[Shayne]

The potential disaster of such a failure convinced me that no reputable company would sell joints not thoroughly tested at a place with strict quality control , so i bought mine at Roughtrax hence it didn't hurt so much when i noticed a damaged boot not 2 years later and not knowing when it got damaged opted to replace the whole thing with the same again .

They wouldn't last long at all if they were weak age and fatigue just gets to them in the end . Who makes them for Toyota anyway ?

 

[Shayne]

'TUV-approved'. TUV establishes safety and performance standards based on the original part and its intended use. They test and certify that products sold for automotive use meet or exceed the original design parameters for function, design, safety, and fitment"

Taken from here https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-TUV

Kavo Right Hand Front Lower Ball Joint

Fits to the R/H lower knuckle, connects to lower wishbone & steering rack.

www.roughtrax4x4.com

 

[Mick W]

What about the upper ball joint. Would you not replace both while the assembly is apart?

 

[BobMurphy]

I replaced the upper ball joint at the same time (and the brake hose & ABS sensor wire and the drive shaft and the tyre . . and . . and . .).

About £1,000 to put it back together (some of which was done because it was apart).

Bob.

 

[Lancashire Cruiser]

Interesting comments on the lower ball joints Bob. I’ve just had my 95 in for Mot which it passed with flying colours. I know the tester well and asked him specifically to check the LBJ. He said there was no play in them and he was confident that they would be fine. The car has been well looked after, not abused off road etc and spent a lot of its time in Portugal so no rust and 125K miles
Would a LBJ let go if there was no play in it, interested to know your thoughts Bob?

 

[BobMurphy]

To test it you really have to support the lower wishbone and the steering knuckle and try to push the ball back into the socket. If it still tight then it should be OK. The forces involved in pulling it apart in normal use are high (its supporting a corner of the car) so just wiggling it isn't enough. I don't think levering the joint with a pry bar will prove anything.

There were no grease nipples on mine which meant they were dry and constantly grinding apart with the suspension forces and steering twisting them.

I felt the steering tighten as the ball was about to pop and said to my passengers "this doesn't feel right I'm pulling in" - CLATTER !

Mine had around 135,000 miles on it at the time but I don't know much about its history. I think it was owned by a rural Vet.

Your choice; if you're going to worry about them just get them changed for peace of mind.

Bob.

 

[SteveJB]

Spose that question could be put to anything mechanical electrical whether it moves or not and if you think about some of the enquiries put up how many times has it been said it was working last night when I took the key out and parked it up last night or that power tool was working fine when I last used it everything works until it don't just like me