toyota & bmw working together

[Ben]

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/articles/20 ... ng-engines

 

[Crispin]

I wonder what Mr-T will do about reliability?
From a layman, unbiased PoV, do BM engines last for 20 something years? Not sure if the D4D will still be ticking over in 20 years like the other old lumps?

 

[Ian Rubie]

It is a shame they don't say the 3 litre engine is being shared. There is talk of a triple turbo (350 - 400bhp) version coming soon. Torque wise the current twin turbo is about 369lb ft at 1,200rpm and 428lb ft @ 1750-2250rpm, the triple will have more - there is talk of 600 lb ft.

Ian

 

[chadr]

......do <insert make> engines last for 20 something years?

I really do not think that the car makes have that kind of longevity in mind when they manufacture cars these days. That is from a bygone era. The Climate Change lobby will only make it harder and harder for older cars to keep up with ever tightening regulations.

As an aside, take a drive in a newish BMW 520d or 320d - what an amazing engine. The power/torque is simply phenomenal for a production "standard" 2.0 TD engine.....and the killer is that it will provide nearly 60mpg average too. OK, there might be a few blown turbos etc. but given that the 3 series has been the most popular car in the UK over the last few years, the sheer numbers on the road, must mean a few breakdowns.

All in my humble opinion of course.

 

[Crispin]

The other brand engines certainly do have more oomph to them. My 120, while no slouch does feel underpowered. Did so before I added the bumper, lift, bigger tyres etc.

There might be something in your comment though; so much about us is leading more and more towards a throw-away society. Cars are / have / will soon be the same. The strive for better efficiency will also not help. I wonder when I will not be allowed to drive my 120 into London.

My neighbour has bought a X5 diesel which goes like stink and out runs me without trying. He bought it “in preparation for winter” The low profile tyres on
it are so fat they almost meet in the middle. Should be interesting to see when the snow finally does arrive. Will his engine / drive train still be good after 150000 - 200000 miles?

 

[AndyCook]

My neighbour has bought a X5 diesel which goes like stink and out runs me without trying. He bought it “in preparation for winter” The low profile tyres on
it are so fat they almost meet in the middle. Should be interesting to see when the snow finally does arrive. Will his engine / drive train still be good after 150000 - 200000 miles?

it wont be "going like stink" when it snows, it will be furisously wheel spinning and sliding sideways! and you can go out an offer a tow

 

[Ian Rubie]

Agreed - most X series are hampered in winter weather by their tyre choice. The original story was sharing engine technology rather than styling \ marketing.

At the risk of being banned \ shot, lets not forget that Toyota are not perfect - BEBs, AHC, Cylinder heads, injector seals . . . . Their diesel technology does seem to be a fair way behind the market leaders.

Ian

 

[Cptsideways]

I get some inside knowledge on this type of stuff, as I work in the industry, Toyota have been lagging behind on developing Diesel Tech, instead they've gone down the Hybrid route using their current petrol engines (which has been strong point for them). This has left them in the lurch a bit especially in European markets where diesel is a key player.

Expect to see more diesel/hybrids coming out soon eg PSA/Citroen are now going down that route with startling results.

BMW are one of the key players in diesels, as for reliability a lot of that is down to the component parts & their suppliers making rubbish parts.

I've often wondered about bunging in a 3.0D into an 80, it'd make it go somewhat better with reduced fuel costs. Alternatively retrofitting a CR system to a 4.2 might be a solution which I have looked into.

 

[Andrew Prince]

Remember BMW and LR worked together for a while and stuck some BMW engines into LRs - although I think these were only petrol 2.8l engines. Funnily enough this has gone quiet in recent years.

Nissan tried sticking its 3l TD engine into Patrols with spectacular results for the wrong reasons (they went pop!) - yes, the Nissan engine was unsophisticated by BMW standards and I think it was also a 4 cyl rather than 6 cyl. For my money, heavy duty 4x4s like LCs, Patrols etc need fairly large capacity engines as these give more grunt at the bottom end of the rev range, despite the torque figures on paper suggesting that the high output smaller engines are superior. The larger engines are also relatively unstressed, so longevity is greater.

More power sounds nice but how does these high output BMW engines cope with a bit of dust entering them? Or water in the electronics? Or a bit of muck in the fuel going through their fancy injectors? What about the shock loading on the already-stressed crank from a spinning drivetrain on a heavy truck that suddenly gets grip?
This is where Toyota's approach differs from BMW and others - Toyota is shooting for reliability and longevity at the expense of performance and efficiency. BMW has the opposite priorities.

Progress is inevitable and gradually these trucks will be re-engineered to use these more efficient engines without breaking anything. I guess the passenger car market is way bigger than the SUV/utility market, so car manufacturers are likely to show a bias towards the larger markets. We should be grateful that Toyota has stuck to designing a suitable utility vehilce for ours needs/desires for as long as it has Or we'd all be driving pimped X5s or LRs

 

[SimonD]

A few years ago i was on safari and met an engineer from BMW who worked on the X5. He told me he'd never buy one. Said he wouldn't go into it but it had "issues".

 

[Crispin]

My neighbour has bought a X5 diesel which goes like stink and out runs me without trying. He bought it “in preparation for winter” The low profile tyres on
it are so fat they almost meet in the middle. Should be interesting to see when the snow finally does arrive. Will his engine / drive train still be good after 150000 - 200000 miles?

it wont be "going like stink" when it snows, it will be furisously wheel spinning and sliding sideways! and you can go out an offer a tow

I can't wait. Last year tried to take his SL55 AMG out in the snow. he said "The computer will do clever things" Did not make it to the end of the road...

I think it would be interesting to see what comes of it the friendship. It might be that they would only do car engines together and leave the landcruiser "range" as theirs?
I was in the dealer last week Toyota have lost the plot with cars. The show room was full of boring, super green tree hugging cars. Was nothing that made me think "oooh yes, I want that" other than a 150 and a brochure of a 200. Not a twitch from my pants. Across the road the Honda dealer had a much better looking range. (Not sure if they were better but just on looks alone they seemed it. The BM dealer was the same. Don't much like the 3 series or the 5 but they have something about them. Toyotas are all beige in design

Having said that, the new GT86 looks pretty cool It's a Scoobie engine though

 

[Chris Coombs]

Few years back when I work for BMW a mate of mine was one of the R&D techs, used to take my company 330d or 530d, just loved them diesels, and after 20 mins tinkering with it plugged in to computer, the car became stupid quick for a diesel engined car!

Chris