moggy1968
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Woman killed by a TOW BALL!!!
- Thread starter dyladams
- Start date
I was told something interesting recently........................
A D shackle like on Stevens pics above shouldnt be used for snatch recoveries, D shackles are not for shock loading.
To demonstrate this the guy that told me was told to put a strap around a tree and attach it to the back of his car using a D shackle. Then told to try and drive off.
He did and the D shackle was then too tight to be undone by hand and they ended up having to cut it off.
Instead he should have used a Bow shackle as the shape of them means they can flex and stretch slightly and then still be undone.
I dont know if this is true or not its just something I was told?
He's quite right, and the other thing to do is do them up tight then back them off a quarter turn.
I'll always use a bridle where possible, spreading the load is beneficial but it also helps to lessen the shock.
Aaron Schubert
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There's been a few people killed in Australia by broken tow balls. It is seriously scary, and the education around 4WDing isn't at the level it should be. I saw a 4WD club down south a few years ago join two snatch straps with a shackle, and I just walked away in dismay.
I always try to reduce any potential missiles - if you don't have to use a shackle, don't. Tow balls are a big no no - they don't take shock loading well at all. Snatch straps are often abused too; there's no need to get a full on run up for every snatch; we try to start slow and then build up as required. I believe a lot of the mine sites over here have banned snatch straps in favour of straps that don't stretch, purely because of the huge energy they build up
Aaron
I always try to reduce any potential missiles - if you don't have to use a shackle, don't. Tow balls are a big no no - they don't take shock loading well at all. Snatch straps are often abused too; there's no need to get a full on run up for every snatch; we try to start slow and then build up as required. I believe a lot of the mine sites over here have banned snatch straps in favour of straps that don't stretch, purely because of the huge energy they build up
Aaron
WomblingFree
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^ +1
Only an idiot would use a standard tow ball for a snatch! They are not rated for a shock loading.
The instantaneous load from a snatch is a hell of a lot more than that from towing your trailer. Lots of miserly idiots come to grief with this down here.
If you insist then make sure your public liability insurance is up to date.
Another stupid idea is to use a hitch receiver with the strap held inside by the hitch pin. The pin is rated for a shear load and not for bending. You see quite a few idiots who have bent the pin so can't get the strap out again
Why stuff about, buy the correct gear for the job. Its about safety, not how cheaply you can go out and play and destroy someones life.
Only an idiot would use a standard tow ball for a snatch! They are not rated for a shock loading.
The instantaneous load from a snatch is a hell of a lot more than that from towing your trailer. Lots of miserly idiots come to grief with this down here.
If you insist then make sure your public liability insurance is up to date.
Another stupid idea is to use a hitch receiver with the strap held inside by the hitch pin. The pin is rated for a shear load and not for bending. You see quite a few idiots who have bent the pin so can't get the strap out again
Why stuff about, buy the correct gear for the job. Its about safety, not how cheaply you can go out and play and destroy someones life.
IMO snatching should be the last resort, even towing is often used when a winch would be better.
Winching is far more controlled, whereas even a tow and especially a snatch, is a "hope for the best" scenario. I hate tows at the best of times, a slow and steady winch recovery is much preferred, even if you have to use a ground anchor because there's no trees.
And use a shovel for goodness sake, how many are trying to pull through a tonne or more of mud baulked up in front of the tyres, front & back
Most of the errors made are out of laziness... IMHO.
Winching is far more controlled, whereas even a tow and especially a snatch, is a "hope for the best" scenario. I hate tows at the best of times, a slow and steady winch recovery is much preferred, even if you have to use a ground anchor because there's no trees.
And use a shovel for goodness sake, how many are trying to pull through a tonne or more of mud baulked up in front of the tyres, front & back
Most of the errors made are out of laziness... IMHO.
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moggy1968
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I was amazed when I went to a meet of the local 4x4 response to find they don't allow winching, tow recovery only. A winching is a carefully controlled exercise using equipment of a known rated value. A tow, and even more so a snatch recovery, on the other hand, is a recovery using totally unknown and largely uncontrolled forces.
I would rather winch every time.
I would rather winch every time.
This one could run and run.
Winches - agree with whats said above, but a winch used badly or with inappropriate rating is a death trap.
Towing - is open to debate. Agreed.
Reference to shock load on tow balls is frankly BS - no recovery equipment (that I'm aware of at least) has an explicit shock load rating - so whether its a tow ball, a factory fitted lashing point (which many idiots assume is a recover point) or whatever is largely moot. They generally aren't explicitly shock load tested.
Ultimately if your vehicle is stuck its your responsibility to be recovered - and be happy with the approach used. I've been on both ends (recovered and recoverer) using a variety of methods over 20 years - conventional rope, kinetic, wire winch and plasma winch. Gimme a choice and I would go with plasma winch every time... but you dont always get a choice and stuck somewhere up a mountain, you take calculated risks. I've snatch recovered people using tow balls - sometime its the only option, or let the vehicle sink.
So don't get too anal about recovery methods - its all a question of judgement at a given moment in time. Its easy to be an armchair expert and get fixated on the "right" way of doing things.
Just my 2 penneth. Now awaiting the haters, know it alls and the trolls of course...
Winches - agree with whats said above, but a winch used badly or with inappropriate rating is a death trap.
Towing - is open to debate. Agreed.
Reference to shock load on tow balls is frankly BS - no recovery equipment (that I'm aware of at least) has an explicit shock load rating - so whether its a tow ball, a factory fitted lashing point (which many idiots assume is a recover point) or whatever is largely moot. They generally aren't explicitly shock load tested.
Ultimately if your vehicle is stuck its your responsibility to be recovered - and be happy with the approach used. I've been on both ends (recovered and recoverer) using a variety of methods over 20 years - conventional rope, kinetic, wire winch and plasma winch. Gimme a choice and I would go with plasma winch every time... but you dont always get a choice and stuck somewhere up a mountain, you take calculated risks. I've snatch recovered people using tow balls - sometime its the only option, or let the vehicle sink.
So don't get too anal about recovery methods - its all a question of judgement at a given moment in time. Its easy to be an armchair expert and get fixated on the "right" way of doing things.
Just my 2 penneth. Now awaiting the haters, know it alls and the trolls of course...
WomblingFree
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Reference to shock load on tow balls is frankly BS - no recovery equipment (that I'm aware of at least) has an explicit shock load rating - so whether its a tow ball, a factory fitted lashing point (which many idiots assume is a recover point) or whatever is largely moot. They generally aren't explicitly shock load tested.
Now awaiting the haters, know it alls and the trolls of course...
You don't think that with a opening statement like that that you might be considered one of those
Agreed there is no shock load test but I never said there was. However do you honestly believe that your standard tow ball was designed with a 25mph flying jerk with a 3 or 4 ton rolling load (considerably more if up to the axles in mud or sand) in mind? No of course not. It was designed for a slow gradual take up of the load.
Whether you agree with the usage or not, it is a fact that towballs, non rated chains and non rated shackles can and do snap and do become flying missiles and people have died as a result. Just Google it and see some examples for yourself.
Got me stuffed how people can put there heads in the sand and pretend it can't happen. If you really can't afford the correct gear then, as a minimum, take your towball off and put a rated shackle through the towbar tongue - but then thats probably too much hassle for some...
WomblingFree
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Knew I had some pics somewhere - These are from http://www.4wdqld.com.au/driving-tips.html
Can't remember where this one came from -
Can't find another shows some clown ripping his entire towbar off the truck. Starts folding in the middle at the tongue and then just rips off.
Can't remember where this one came from -
Can't find another shows some clown ripping his entire towbar off the truck. Starts folding in the middle at the tongue and then just rips off.
moggy1968
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thats true of all recovery methods. MY point is, a winch is a known load, so it can be combined with other suitably rated equipment. Towing you are dealing with totally unknown loads. Not saying I haven't done it, and I have done kinetic recovery, but I would say under most circumstances winching is much safer. The army only allows kinetic recovery of armoured vehicles because of it's risk.
I don't think any one here is an 'armchair expert' and it's a pretty offensive way of trying to write off anyone that doesn't agree with you. Just because someone doesn't agree with you don't write off their opinion as being anal, hater, know it all or troll.
Depends what you mean about being anal, but if being anal is using the correct equipment in the correct way then maybe being anal might just keep you alive and you should try it sometime!
Personally, I don't see doing something right as being anal!
@ Moggy - apologies - I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of anything particularly - just making the point that its not always possible to do things "by the book" and its easy to make sweeping generalisations - i.e. winches good, tow ropes bad... and on occasion I've had people quoting best practice at me that have hardly got their wheels dirty. Not saying thats you or indeed anyone specifically on here, but its happened. Practical experience counts in this instance.
In this case I have personally witnessed several winch wires break, to horrible effect, I've never yet seen a tow ball fly off. And sure, its horrible when it happens, but I don't think its as frequent as could be made out.
So - if offended anyone - apologies. As I said originally, just my 2 penneth and I'll get back in my box.
In this case I have personally witnessed several winch wires break, to horrible effect, I've never yet seen a tow ball fly off. And sure, its horrible when it happens, but I don't think its as frequent as could be made out.
So - if offended anyone - apologies. As I said originally, just my 2 penneth and I'll get back in my box.
moggy1968
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agree with you there
the book provides the best case scenario, real life requires you then adapt that to the situation/equipment available. I'm sure we've all done something, including recovery, with our fingers firmly crossed!
The ideal solution is the one that works!
the book provides the best case scenario, real life requires you then adapt that to the situation/equipment available. I'm sure we've all done something, including recovery, with our fingers firmly crossed!The ideal solution is the one that works!
One thing I've learned, from this forum, other forums and doing it, is there's no "book" as such, just a bunch of good ideas and ideals. But as said above, in a few different ways, the key approach to any real-life recovery, IMO, is to take your time, think about your options, then strategize them with all the what-ifs you can think of, then put them into practice carefully, calmly, and collectedly.
There are times when time is of the essence, but mostly, there is time to take your time.
I notice on many of the videos that go wrong, there's lots of people, all running about, many in the way, many in harms way for no reason, and it's always a rush to get the job done. I understand that with a sand rescue on a rising tide, but in my experience, most times there is time to take your time, and change strategy when it's appropriate.
My circumstances have often been self-recovery when totally alone. Nobody to discuss it with and nobody to assist. Stringing out chain, straps, setting a ground anchor, rigging snatch blocks, digging out, and stuff, is hard work, a lot of walking and a lot of thinking. It can be quite exhausting, so taking your time is even more important, pacing yourself.
I've been in some very tight spots, mostly by my own stupidity, but stuck nevertheless. I've never had anyone to phone, but I've always managed to get free. On two occasions, much to my surprise, I admit. But I know for sure, if I hadn't thought it through first, and had some plan-Bs in place, my truck would still be up on the mountain!
That's it from me for a bit...
There are times when time is of the essence, but mostly, there is time to take your time.
I notice on many of the videos that go wrong, there's lots of people, all running about, many in the way, many in harms way for no reason, and it's always a rush to get the job done. I understand that with a sand rescue on a rising tide, but in my experience, most times there is time to take your time, and change strategy when it's appropriate.
My circumstances have often been self-recovery when totally alone. Nobody to discuss it with and nobody to assist. Stringing out chain, straps, setting a ground anchor, rigging snatch blocks, digging out, and stuff, is hard work, a lot of walking and a lot of thinking. It can be quite exhausting, so taking your time is even more important, pacing yourself.
I've been in some very tight spots, mostly by my own stupidity, but stuck nevertheless. I've never had anyone to phone, but I've always managed to get free. On two occasions, much to my surprise, I admit. But I know for sure, if I hadn't thought it through first, and had some plan-Bs in place, my truck would still be up on the mountain!
That's it from me for a bit...
Alwyn Wallace
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Damn! Education is the on way to prevent this from happening.
Wow, these are some scary pictures. I remember as a kid a truck got stuck near our property, My father got the tractor and hooked it up to the truck with a steel cable. I sat in the back of the truck as it was raining. The cable snapped and flew just past my face. It could have ended VERY badly. I never forgot that...!
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