Are they all this tail happy?

[OG.]

I've been out to work in my 95 today and was surprised at how tail happy it was on corners. This is without diffs locked or anything - just running 4H on some slightly slippy surfaces. The tyres arre Dueller HTs (Yeah not the best but even so I would expect both ends to slip) with roughly even tyre wear front and back.

Really was quite disconcerting especially given my comparison vehicle is incredibly stable (Defender 110).

Are they all like that or should I be looking for some a problem?

 

[AndyCook]

what tyres has the defender got?
back end will always slip more easily as its lighter

never had a problem myself with BFG AT and general grabber AT's

 

[spackrackman]

Really was quite disconcerting especially given my comparison vehicle is incredibly stable (Defender 110).

Tail happy is the fun bit.

 

[MuckyPup]

My 80 is tail HAPPY (note capitals)
Good BFG AT's all round but be very careful pulling out from snowy junctions, she just keeps on coming.......

 

[Chris]

Stick the centre diff in and then see. It's like magic.

Chris

 

[MuckyPup]

Can't on mine, no switch....... (next on my bodging list)

 

[Chris]

Sorry, that was aimed at OG in his 95.

Chris

 

[silvercruiser]

Like Chris said the centre difflock sorts that out, when it last snowed a friend of mine knocked and asked if i could come and give his brother a tow, so off i went, i took a a left quite hard playing in the snow and ended up with the back end stepping out slightly more than i would like! on opposite lock across the path so after that i put it in centre difflock

 

[OG.]

Defender is on Max is Buckshot mudders - not the best Tyre either. The thing that got me was the poor balance of grip front to rear. If the 95 had different tyres front to rear then fair enough but lack of grip at one end seems very odd. The Defender feels happy to press on without drama but the 95 feels decidedly nervous at significantly lower speeds.

As a start I'm going to change tyres - I think some of the new General Grabbers might find their way onto her.

 

[Chris Green90]

Stick the centre diff in and then see. It's like magic.

Chris

Are you saying that the power distribution with the center diff open isn't equal then Chris but more like the Subaru setup with slightly more power going to the rears. Not knowing much and never having had a transfer box open I must ask the question.

Chris

 

[Chris]

Well basically yes, but remember that there are all sorts of forces going on here including weight transfer. The VC in the centre diff does a heck of a job, but it's like a sort of limited slip device. When you are on snow, there is so much potential for the old slippy-slidey that it's always going to struggle to some degree. What is for certain is that when you lock the middle, you do get the push-pull action of the 4 tyres and suddenly it becomes incredibly stable. I had a 95 some years ago and spun it locally in the snow. I popped the CD in and couldn't do it again. Unlocked it and nearly ended up in a wall. Not really needed in a nice straight line on snow, it's when there are lateral forces involved like cornering or accelerating.

Best just to go and have a play somewhere wide open.

Chris

 

[fast but dim]

IIRC there's 60/40 drive rear-front on my 120, 50/50 with CDL. Lock that centre diff if there's any degree of slip in the surface you're driving on accodring to this guy http://www.4xforum.com/category/who-is-4xforum/

Saying that I've just nearly swung my rear end into a lampost 'practising' winter driving pulling into our street .

 

[Bob]

I have found the 95 to be excellent in the snow. CD engaged, it took me through 3 feet of powder a couple of years back. That was on Vredestein Wintrac winter tyres. Diff open, you can feather it around a bend like Carlos Sainz without much bother, and a prod of the accelerator pulled it straight. That said, the slidy driving was intentional, with a bit of experience, but if it was a surprise, then maybe it might seem less assured!

 

[IRLGW]

uh whats a 95?? I was out in my 80 tonight and with no cdl (as I just discovered that i forgot to connect all the wires after fitting the clutch) anyway it went well most of the time but is extremely tail happy, although I never felt not in control. It still managed to pull a trooper and a defender90 that became stuck while trying to recover each other in a 3ft drift. As we were unable to remove their tow rope I had no choice but to pull them (together) out of the drift for about 20ft in reverse. Will try to upload the video captured on a mobile phone. I really don't see the VC doing much about anything, but given that its possibly as old as the truck it may be a bit tired after 20 years!

 

[OG.]

95 is a long wheelbase 90 series.
I didn't think the 95 had a VC? The whole idea of a VC is to perform automatic locking of the centre diff as and when required.
I used to have a V8 Range Rover classic with a VC and there was no diff lock option - it just did it.

Went out again when the snow we deeper and she behaved much better with no real sign of the tail happiness earlier. CDL does sort it but it goes in the face of everything I was taught about off road driving - only engage diff locks when necessary so as not to lose cornering ability. Certainly with CDL engaged on the Defender it can be a pig to get round tight corners preferring to plough straight on (one advantage of an on demand system like a VC as fitted to the Range Rovers).

 

[Ian Rubie]

. . . I had no choice but to pull them (together) out of the drift for about 20ft in reverse.

Be very careful with reverse recoveries. An 80 front diff does not like big forces in reverse.

Ian

 

[Andrew T]

It is also a common problem, when you have odd tyres or worn tyres on the back.

Worn tyres on the back have a slightly smaller diameter and can kick out, also odd brands and patterns will all have different slip angles and can lead to initiating a skid.

 

[fast but dim]

OG, I was of the same opinion about only locking the cdl when really necessary, but after a bit of reading there is a school of thought that cdl can be locked on any low grip surface: there in risk of wind up, as wheels can spin to unwind, and traction is improved due to the locked centre diff. perhaps we should all lock the cd more often?

 

[nathanrobo]

I'm running crappy road tyres on my 100 (michelins front - can't remember on the back). When I plant my foot down on bends the back defo steps out, but keeping the power on and just giving a bit of opposite lock seems to sort it out nicely.

Also found if you handbrake round a corner then opp lock with foot planted it straightens up really well.

 

[chadr]

......Also found if you handbrake round a corner then opp lock with foot planted it straightens up really well.

Perhaps we should enter our LCs into a drifting competition ?!