Help needed! LJ78 1-kzt engine conversion, auto box control?

[lakes_cruiser]

Hi guys,

Right so after having sourced a 4runner with a decent 1KZT engine back in June, I have finally gotten around to starting the job of putting this engine into my LJ78. However, I am concerned that I will have problems with mating the 3l engine to my auto tranny. Namely...

1. will the bell housing from the auto lj78 box fit the 1KZT engine?
2. Will I be able to control the autobox? I was planning the avoid using the old ECU because the 1KZT doesn't require one, but it just occurred to me that the ECU also controls the auto box...

I have almost completed the removal of the engine from the 4runner and everything is set for the next stage of the conversion, but I am now having kittens that it won't work afterall....

Any help/advise/enlightenment much appreciated!

 

[Ben]

If you PM me your chassis number I will check what Auto box/bell housing you have and see if that Auto box and bell housing were ever fitted to the 1KZ-T engine.

Is the auto box controlled by vacuum hoses or the ECU?

The easiest option would be to convert it to manual using a second hand box from Karl or a scrap yard.

 

[lakes_cruiser]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your reply (and sorry for not replying to your last email a few months back - I didn't actually see it till just now! Have changed the notification settings so I should get emailed now!)

The chassis number is LJ78G-PET. I tried cross referencing the part numbers on toyodiy but couldn't find the part number for bell housing?

The plan was always to convert it to a manual but our travel plans have been brought forward to to a change in circumstances (its true - family and business does NOT mix!) So we are heading off to Morocco by the end of October for the winter (really looking forward to this obviously!) but this means that we probably don't have time to do the manual tranny conversion too. If it looks like it won't work, then I'll either delay the departure date and try and get hold of a manual box or just go to Morocco with the engine I have, at least it works!!

HO Hum...

 

[Ben]

No worries.

Its under "transmission case and oil pan".

Your bell housing is part number: 35111-60062

And according to the search that bell housing was only fitted to LJ78's.

But you dont use the LJ78 bell housing you need to use the one off the 4-Runner.

What we need to know is will the 4-Runner bell housing bolt onto your auto box................

So I need to find the part number for the bell housing in your 4-Runner and then cross reference that back to see if it was ever fitted to your Auto box which is part number 35000-60371.

 

[Ben]

4-Runner isnt on the list for Europe and Surf isnt on the list for Japan.

 

[wobbly]

Out of interest, what is the issue with the 2.4? (Other than the obvious that its a 2.4lte of course...)

Seems a bit tight time wise.

Pete

 

[lakes_cruiser]

Ben - thanks for looking! Sounds like I need to either keep the engine I have for now... or go the full hog and change the box to a manual.

Pete - the 2.4 works fine, but I'll be heading to the Atlas mountains, and 2LTE and mountains is not a marriage made in heaven! But yes, it is a bit tight and at least it does all work....

 

[lakes_cruiser]

BTW - Ben, who is Karl? He sounds like a handy guy to know...

 

[Ben]

This is what I started writing............

Don't discount the Auto box just yet!

You may find that the 4-Runner bell housing will indeed bolt straight onto your LJ78 Auto box. Just like my 4-Runner bell housing bolted straight up to my LJ70 gear box.

You could do some rough checks to see how possible it looks......................

Try and count how many bolts hold the bell housing to the gearbox on the 4-Runner and then do the same on your LJ78.

Then I realized that wouldn't work as the bolts that hold the bell housing on are in the inside of the bell housing.

I dont think your really going to know whether it will work or not till you strip it all down.

But converting to manual would/should definitely work and shouldn't be too hard.

Karl is one of only a few specialist LandCruiser breakers in the UK, and a thoroughly decent chap.

http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/showthread.php/42922-Webster-That-Karl-Webster-chap

His website.

http://www.landcruiserparts.co.uk/toyota/

 

[Ben]

Forgot to say I copied all the relevant engine swap info out of my build thread a while a go into a blog post so that all the info is grouped together.

http://www.landcruiserclub.net/foru...s-3-Litre-1KZT-Engine-Conversion-2-4TD-to-3TD

Some how its had over 10,000 views.

Another thought I had..........................

These 70's are very common in New Zealand so theirs a good chance some one over their has done the conversion your hoping to do so it might be worth having a look on some of the NZ forums.

 

[wobbly]

Jim did it in his LJ78 with no problem.

Rather than all that work, how about a sort of compromise...

Replace the water pump and belts on the LJ with new pattern parts, put in a genuine Totota 'stat, replace the coolant with Toyota red fluid, and add Water Wetter (google it).

Pattern parts all available form Milners/Roughtrax, if you are competent home mech then should only be £150.00 or so, plus the other service parts I'm sure you're doing before you go.

The biggest issue with the LJ78 is its rather asthmatic performance, especially if its fully loaded, its not going to overheat the head at 55mph. Makes it a nice long holiday as well......

Kzt and manual swap is a good idea, will make a good build thread, but can see it getting stressy if there are any hiccups.

Good luck

Pete

 

[lakes_cruiser]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas, it's very helpful. I've decided that given the tight deadline and uncertainties about compatibility, I'm going to stick with the 2.4 for the trip. Of course I'll do a full service and look into pete's suggestions of water wetter etc.

As I understand it, the things that could improve the power output are fitting an intercooler and a larger bore exhaust. A new exhaust is not an option but I'm assuming fitting an intercooler without the big bore exhaust would be a recipe for overheating? Is this correct?

I'll keep the engine and do the Manual conversion in the spring.... Unless I can find kiwi that has the answers in the meantime! I'll get looking now.

Thanks again for the help,

Ben

 

[lakes_cruiser]

Wobbly, who is Jim? How can I get hold of him? Sounds like a man I need to talk to....

 

[lakes_cruiser]

Just been looking aRound and can see lots of chat about swapping the 1kzt into an lj78 but yet to find anyone who has actually done it!

 

[wobbly]

Sorry - his forum nomenclature is Jimbo4x4

Its not a common swap choice because the ecu controls the fueling and also the gearbox, as you've discovered. This wouldnt really be an issue for you though if you put in the manual box as well.

Its a shame the 2.4 has a poor reputation, because the gearbox is bombproof - miles better than the engine, which puts it under no stress at all.

A more common conversion is one of the 4.0 V6 twin cam petrol engines out of a Lexus, few of them about. But as you've got the engine and box already, stick to the plan, just give yourself a bit of time. If you read Bens thread, things always crop up unexpectedly.

Wouldnt fit an intercooler without bigger bore exhaust.

Pete

My LJ78 was completely reliable and I really liked it, but an evil old crone in a Ford Ka took a dislike to it one night.......quirk of the insurance system meant I ended up with a 3.0 95 series Prado.

 

[Jimbo4x4]

Here I am There's a chap in Southport who swaps 2.4's for 3.0's with his eyes closed and his hands tied behind his back: http://westcoastoffroad.co.uk/ <- guys name's Paul and he knows his onions, might be worth dropping him a line.

I decided not to do the conversion as I honestly never thought there was anything "wrong" with my 2.4, and after my pa (robthebox on here) picked up one of west coasts old 3.0 78's and I had a drive of that, I realised that life in the slow lane can be a lot more relaxing! The 3.0 gave me the power to overtake more often, and so I often felt compelled to overtake, which in turn gave me more stressful drives as I was always trying to find places to overtake! It's each to their own at the end of the day. The 2.4 doesn't lack torque, it just doesn't produce enough bhp for some peoples driving habits. Off road, you would never be able to tell the difference.

With regards to taking your LJ78 to North Africa, just make sure your cooling system is in top notch order. Make sure you're running toyota "red" coolant to save any corrosion to the head gasket, and another top tip is to fit a 1.1 or 1.3 bar rad cap (as opposed to standard 0.9), which slows the rate at which the engine warms up (or indeed, overheats in extreme conditions). This allows you, when needs must, to strain the engine for much longer before the temperature climbs anywhere near the danger zone. I ran a 1.3 bar rad cap for my trip and the needle never climbed higher than 2/3rds up the gauge for the whole 5000miles, including many a mountain pass and sandy dune. Of course, you will need to make sure all the hoses are nice and tight and that none are perished at all, but well worth the £8 in my opinion. Here's a link to one that will fit: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CELICA-MR...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item565509c2fc

Any questions feel free to drop me a line

Jim.

 

[lakes_cruiser]

Jim,

This is great info - thanks, especially as you have been to Morocco in a 78! I think I'll give Paul at Westcoast a call tomorrow and see how busy is and what the costs would be to put the kzt engine in. But I expect I'll be heading off with the 2LTE but feel much more confident about it. I know what you mean about enjoying life in the slow lane Jim! When you don't have the hp, you need to get philosophical!! But yes, it can be less stressful. As long as you're not driving up a long hill with half a mile of traffic behind you and lorries and caravans trying to over take

Just looking into water wetter, egt gauges and 1.3 rad caps now....

 

[lakes_cruiser]

1kzt into an LJ78 and manual transfer Saga...

Ok.. so latest in the saga...

I emailed Paul from Westcoast Offorad. He was brilliant and gave me defintive answers to putting a 1kzt into an LJ78. I said ideally I wanted to do a manual transfer but said I would also keep my auto and mate it to the 1kzt if it would save time.

This is what he said...

Hi Ben

This job is straight forward BUT depends on lots of things - mainly what donor car the engine and box have come from, if its from a KZJ70 it is a straight swap with minor modifications, if its from anything else it is more in depth than you first think.

1. The 1kz will fit to your auto transmission but you will need a bell housing and flex plate(fly wheel) from the 1kz auto and also remove the spigot bearing from the rear of the crank!

2. Auto should still select gears providing you leave all the wiring intact the only thing you will have to do here is fabricate a kick down cable bracket. (i run one like this for 2 years)

The 4runner gearbox is also no good for your truck you will need a 70 series manual box a one from a 2.4 will do as you have the bell housing from the 4 runner which bolts on the the 2.4 box.

To do the swap off the top of my head the conversion parts you will need are
70 series cast dump pipe (and complete exhaust system)
70 series sump and pick up pipe. Possibly 70 dipstick and tube
70 series 3.0 radiator and fan cowl
70 series throttle cable
For the manual you will also need 70 series clutch pedal, master cylinder assembly, cross member and correct length props as they are different auto to manual

We would not be able to get it in before November as we have too much work on, The new year would be the earliest. Labour would be in the region of £1000 + vat + parts

I would consider going over the 2.4 before Morocco. You would only need a hold up of one part to cock your trip up.

Hope this helps let me know if you need any more info.

I thought I'd post it on here incase it helps any others.

So - I decided to keep the 2lte (this is fast becoming a swear word around here) and head to Morocco with my truck as is. Gutless but working and reliable. Then do the engine and box transfer when I get back. Not ideal but I intend to keep the truck for a long, long time and so I thought I could wait a bit longer. So I focussed on getting thr 2lte ready for the trip. Got a new starter motor fitted, got a new water pump ready to fit, got red toyota coolant, Toyota thermostat, water wetter and 1.3 bar rad cap all ready to go on/in. And then yesterday, the truck would not start. Me and my mechanical mate Chris fiddled for a few hours but nothing. Starter motor is working but no fuel getting through.

So, as I'm a member and I was getting nowehere I thought I'd call the RAC. The RAC guy thought it was the fuel cutoff switch but couldn't open the selenoid as it required a special tool. So as it was late he suggested finding a garage who would be able to look at it in the morning, and the the RAC would arrange for a recovery truck to take it there.

After I put in a call to the local garage, they suggested a diesel specialist in my local town. Called them and they agreed to look at it. Called the RAC to arrange for a recovery truck and explained the story so far. Fine, no problem they said, a truck is on its way. 30 minutes later, a patrol guy in a VW van shows up. So I say, how come you're here, I was expecting a recovery truck - he doesn't know why he's been sent but spends over an hour taking a look anyway and covers the same ground as the guy from last night. Except, this time he disconnects the cutoff switch from the loom and puts 12v straight into it.... and the truck starts... BUT runs very very lumpy (like the Himalayas).

So he reckons its the injector pump. So the situation right now are that there is a recovery truck on their way and they will drop it into the specialist, so hopefully I will findout the problem.

The thing is, I really don't want to spend anymore money on an engine I don't even want! I have a perfectly good 1kzt sitting in the barn ready to be fitted, I just need a manual box, clutch slave cylinder and pedals and a few other bits from a 70 series, and a bell housing. And there is a box on ebay for £300. Paul has been very helpful but he can't do the job until the new year. I am very willing to delay the trip and get the engine and box fitted.

I was going to carry out the conversion with my mate but I no longer have access to the barn where we were going to work and Chris is now going to London for a new job so won't be around to help anyway. My mechanical and engineering skills are not up to doing this alone...

SO.... Does anybody know anyone else who could do this job in the next month or so? Preferably in the North West but I could trailer it further if necessary...

PS My mate helpfully emailed this to me yesterday, saying he'd found the solution...
...carefully jack up the radiator cap and remove the LJ78 from underneath. Now, drive an HZJ77 under the lifted rad cap, carefully lower the cap into place. Problem solved. Better power, better economy, and you'll have this fabled thing called reliability...

Yeah, thanks Chris

 

[Gav Peter]

Hey Chris, you're a funny guy...

 

[Ben]

The only thing I would add is that you dont need a 70 series sump and oil pickup pipe.

I'm still running the 4-runner sump. Granted its slightly smaller than the 70 one as its designed to fit around the independent front suspension diff, but it fits my truck and works fine.

Shame you've got to spend some money on the 2.4 but I sold my old 2.4 for about £550 which seems to be about the going rate for a running 2.4 engine.

Keep us posted how you go.