Judder in 1st, 2nd, Reverse when Engine Warm

[Richard10]

Hi,
Sounds like this could be one of several problems but will submit to the brains trust! Just bought a 93 Diesel Troopy, all very exciting and generally looks in good condition and it's my first Toyota. I've got a load of vehicle history with it, but not much on anything with the clutch or the gearbox other than a change in fluids. The engine was rebuilt on 330,000 and it's now about 426ks.

When I first start up moving in 1st, 2nd and Reverse are completely fine. The gears feel tight and no jumping, the clutch feels solid and not springy. After running for a little while though, there is a real judder at low revs - e.g. doing a reverse park is not quite a full on kangaroo, but is jumpy. Again, the gears feels tight when moving between them. I can travel about in 3rd and above with no problems whatsoever, then slow down, chuck it into 2nd and jump a bit...apply the accelerator harder than I usually would, and again I'm fine. I have noticed if I'm at the lights and I'm slowly going off the mark it can feel a bit jumpy, but putting some revs onto the thing and it's completely fine. Not THAT keen on whacking in the revs whilst doing a parallel park though

Thoughts? Wheel bearings? Gearbox? Hot spot on the clutch plate? Crap driving? Open to all!

Thanks!
Richard

 

[Gav missin]

Hi,
Sounds like this could be one of several problems but will submit to the brains trust! Just bought a 93 Diesel Troopy, all very exciting and generally looks in good condition and it's my first Toyota. I've got a load of vehicle history with it, but not much on anything with the clutch or the gearbox other than a change in fluids. The engine was rebuilt on 330,000 and it's now about 426ks.

When I first start up moving in 1st, 2nd and Reverse are completely fine. The gears feel tight and no jumping, the clutch feels solid and not springy. After running for a little while though, there is a real judder at low revs - e.g. doing a reverse park is not quite a full on kangaroo, but is jumpy. Again, the gears feels tight when moving between them. I can travel about in 3rd and above with no problems whatsoever, then slow down, chuck it into 2nd and jump a bit...apply the accelerator harder than I usually would, and again I'm fine. I have noticed if I'm at the lights and I'm slowly going off the mark it can feel a bit jumpy, but putting some revs onto the thing and it's completely fine. Not THAT keen on whacking in the revs whilst doing a parallel park though

Thoughts? Wheel bearings? Gearbox? Hot spot on the clutch plate? Crap driving? Open to all!

Thanks!
Richard

View attachment 132304

Possibly a engine /gearbox mounting. Simple things first to check.

 

[Ben Stratford]

Is it manual or auto? If auto is the fluid level ok? Or potentially a propshaft issue?

 

[clivehorridge]

Assuming it's a manual, there could be oil on the clutch plate which promotes slippage, but more importantly, gathers dust and causes snatching when the clutch is slightly depressed.

In your description, you're not very clear as to when the judder happens. If it's with the clutch pedal fully released, then it's likely to be engine/gearbox mountings.

If it's during "take-up" i.e. the pedal partially engaging (slipping) the clutch, then the oil contamination is a possibility.

Otherwise it could be a broken spring on the clutch plate (one of the 5 springs arranged in a circle around the centre spline).

It could also be a dry or worn pilot bearing, which usually is a needle roller bearing in the flywheel, that receives the end of the first motion shaft from the gearbox.

There's a list to consider, all of which (except the first) will need the clutch removed, so after checking the mountings, if the problem persists, I'd recommend complete renewal of the clutch and all four of the ancillary parts, (i) pressure plate (cover), (ii) drive (friction) plate, (iii) release (thrust) bearing, and (iv) pilot bearing.

Best of luck...

 

[Richard10]

Possibly a engine /gearbox mounting. Simple things first to check.

All right will start with that, thank you!

 

[Richard10]

Is it manual or auto? If auto is the fluid level ok? Or potentially a propshaft issue?

Yeah its a manual. When I check the mounting I'll see what the play is in the propshaft

 

[Richard10]

Assuming it's a manual, there could be oil on the clutch plate which promotes slippage, but more importantly, gathers dust and causes snatching when the clutch is slightly depressed.

In your description, you're not very clear as to when the judder happens. If it's with the clutch pedal fully released, then it's likely to be engine/gearbox mountings.

If it's during "take-up" i.e. the pedal partially engaging (slipping) the clutch, then the oil contamination is a possibility.

Otherwise it could be a broken spring on the clutch plate (one of the 5 springs arranged in a circle around the centre spline).

It could also be a dry or worn pilot bearing, which usually is a needle roller bearing in the flywheel, that receives the end of the first motion shaft from the gearbox.

There's a list to consider, all of which (except the first) will need the clutch removed, so after checking the mountings, if the problem persists, I'd recommend complete renewal of the clutch and all four of the ancillary parts, (i) pressure plate (cover), (ii) drive (friction) plate, (iii) release (thrust) bearing, and (iv) pilot bearing.

Best of luck...

Ahh ok. Well its during take up I suppose...will try the other suggestions first as they sound a little easier ha ha otherwise this sounds like it could be a pain in the assholes :-/

 

[rob rule]

Check U-joints - when last greased? prop slip joint? check the Clutch wishbone lever mechanism at the side of the bellhousing for rust/crap that may be involved
The Cutch is hydraulically driven. With this mileage, the master cylinders may be tired.

 

[Richard10]

So after a little while, I've checked the the mountings and they look fine, however the problem may be on one of the uni joints as there is some slight wear and crud around the end of it. Will take a closer look in the coming days, as soon as I sort out my issue with the rotors (which I'm about to post a new thread if I can't find the answer after searching). Will be sure to reply back here soon!