Sorry to hear that Dave. Let's just say I agree with you and then you won't have to retype it. Not having any issues myself. But if you fancy a rant type it in a word doc first, paste it in then click send, eh.
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Suspension advice please for overland trip to China
- Thread starter Daan
- Start date
Hmm - whilst you're having that kind of issue, write your reply in an editor of some form then copy paste and post ... A PITA but works
Serendipity 
check the timestamps 
check the timestamps 
Towpack
Well-Known Member
I think my 80 also shared the fate of many big 4x4's sold back then in being used as a 1 person, road based chariot. The driver's seat showed the expected wear but the rest of the interior including the front passenger seat were not far off new condition and I could find no evidence anywhere on the vehicle, inside or out of the thing ever going 'off road'. My point is that it was designed and built to do much more straight out of the box. JMO
That;s a pretty compelling testimony! Did you mean you have or haven't crossed Africa with the EFS kit fitted? And thanks for the offer!
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Rob
Well-Known Member
Dave, there is a differenced between a product being designed to be cable of doing something and being designed to do something to the best of its abilities. In engineering you always need to make compromises, and I do not think anyone could argue that a fully loaded 80 would handle better than one with only a single individual and some luggage on standard suspension. Also I am sure no one will disagree that if you use a passenger vehicle at MGVW all the time the suspension will not last as long as if it were always used with only a light load. If you know you will always be carrying weight then you can improve the handling and reliability by optimising the suspension for that load whilst compromising handling when empty.
Tommy, I used to run B Ironman 50mm coils and after switching to the equivalent 50mm OME 850/863 the spring rate is significantly higher. I know my new OME front coils are more similar to the Ironman C coils but this has been confirmed by other individuals as well including Julian Voelker that like for like the Ironman coils will always have a lower spring rate.
Tommy, I used to run B Ironman 50mm coils and after switching to the equivalent 50mm OME 850/863 the spring rate is significantly higher. I know my new OME front coils are more similar to the Ironman C coils but this has been confirmed by other individuals as well including Julian Voelker that like for like the Ironman coils will always have a lower spring rate.
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#picks up and hands dave back his dummy# 
I believe that cruisers with the third row seats come from the factory with stiffer rear springs.
i think this choosing the right "weight" spring is a tricky affair.
i went for the normal weight ome set up, 200kg? i have no rear seats at all. just a plywood base with 8" sides so its like a van. its very harsh when empty and i havnt yet had enough weight in it to hit the sweet spot, even though its full of tools a lot of the time.
will see what its like with the rtt on and full of camping gear.
I believe that cruisers with the third row seats come from the factory with stiffer rear springs.
i think this choosing the right "weight" spring is a tricky affair.
i went for the normal weight ome set up, 200kg? i have no rear seats at all. just a plywood base with 8" sides so its like a van. its very harsh when empty and i havnt yet had enough weight in it to hit the sweet spot, even though its full of tools a lot of the time.
will see what its like with the rtt on and full of camping gear.
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SteveS
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Daan - I am overland preparing my 100 - search on "hedgehog" here to find some of my thinking on the subject. I'm no specialist but some of the fact/research and thoughts that I've dug out along the way may be of use to you. For example I have just been around the debate on springs and shocks myself and will be specifying EFS springs and Tough Dog shocks. There are plenty of good solutions out there but to make the selection I have tried to use some logic to choose the right solution to supplement the subjective but nonetheless valuable forum views on good brands to look at...so for OME (which I have now and have positive views on) versus something harder, I found that it came down to a number of factors which EFS had a better fit for my particular configuration/purpose. IMHO Mr T has some pretty good OEM stuff but when it comes to uprated off-road/washboard type solutions I would go with one of the tried and tested Australian or South African solutions.....where they do this stuff all day long. For shocks on a heavy load/washboard surface then I would be going for a large bore solution...cavitation could render lesser shocks useless. If you get a chance to take your truck on a shake-down trip before you head off to China then anything that you have concerns over can be fixed before you end up looking for parts in Mongolia.
I also keep a very accurate log of weight on and weight taken off the vehicle and as you can see I've weighed it too, to help with selecting the springs and weight on each axle etc. An overland kitted vehicle could easily have more weight than a full 7 seats
Just my 2c
I also keep a very accurate log of weight on and weight taken off the vehicle and as you can see I've weighed it too, to help with selecting the springs and weight on each axle etc. An overland kitted vehicle could easily have more weight than a full 7 seats
Just my 2c
Many people many opinions, but that's what I asked for isn't it.. Thanks anyway, I knew there isn't the one single perfect answer.
To answer a few re-questions:
Route:
Our route will be a giant 8: Amsterdam Warsaw St Petersburg Moskow Omsk, than through Kazakhstan and Kyrgystan, enter China in the West to reach Beijing. After China head north for Mongolia where little Tarmac exists even if you look very hard. On the way 'home' we'll pass through a bit of Russia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgystan again before reaching Tadzjikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Turkey and Greece. After Greece we're back in Europe again LOL.
Road:
Since we are not experienced off-roaders and will travel solo (besides China due to the guide fees: better to share with a group), lots of the travels will be on Tarmac. But I anticipate it as some of you suggest to be in a horrible condition full of potholes or worse in many of the places we'll visit. Parts of China, most of Mongolia, maybe Kyrgystan Tadzjikistan and Iran will include some off-roading too, but I can't really tell for sure. Haven't been to many of the places en route...
Load:
I've roughly calculated as extra weights 50 kg roof tent, 50kg roof rack, 50 kg drawer system, 40 kg Diesel containers, 40 kg water, 50 kg for spare parts, tools and extra fluids, 20 kg fridge, 25 kg 2nd spare wheel. Round it up and we'll hit maybe 400kg in total, excluding regular fuel tank and me and the girl of course.
Since we are still in the process of collecting some of the above gear, exactly weighing the car is a bit difficult for now. And I feel I want to get the suspension sorted sooner rather than later as this is the largest 'technical' issue we have to tackle before leaving May 1st.
I think I' ll may go for Koni, OME or Terrain Tamers. These have been recommended by different specialist in The Netherlands I have spoken to. Raising the car doesn't seem necessary, but changing the springs together with the suspension seems to come recommended. Since the springs are 20 years old probably wise
Of course, correct me if I wrong...
To answer a few re-questions:
Route:
Our route will be a giant 8: Amsterdam Warsaw St Petersburg Moskow Omsk, than through Kazakhstan and Kyrgystan, enter China in the West to reach Beijing. After China head north for Mongolia where little Tarmac exists even if you look very hard. On the way 'home' we'll pass through a bit of Russia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgystan again before reaching Tadzjikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Turkey and Greece. After Greece we're back in Europe again LOL.
Road:
Since we are not experienced off-roaders and will travel solo (besides China due to the guide fees: better to share with a group), lots of the travels will be on Tarmac. But I anticipate it as some of you suggest to be in a horrible condition full of potholes or worse in many of the places we'll visit. Parts of China, most of Mongolia, maybe Kyrgystan Tadzjikistan and Iran will include some off-roading too, but I can't really tell for sure. Haven't been to many of the places en route...
Load:
I've roughly calculated as extra weights 50 kg roof tent, 50kg roof rack, 50 kg drawer system, 40 kg Diesel containers, 40 kg water, 50 kg for spare parts, tools and extra fluids, 20 kg fridge, 25 kg 2nd spare wheel. Round it up and we'll hit maybe 400kg in total, excluding regular fuel tank and me and the girl of course.
Since we are still in the process of collecting some of the above gear, exactly weighing the car is a bit difficult for now. And I feel I want to get the suspension sorted sooner rather than later as this is the largest 'technical' issue we have to tackle before leaving May 1st.
I think I' ll may go for Koni, OME or Terrain Tamers. These have been recommended by different specialist in The Netherlands I have spoken to. Raising the car doesn't seem necessary, but changing the springs together with the suspension seems to come recommended. Since the springs are 20 years old probably wise
Of course, correct me if I wrong...
Well it is a new day and perhaps I am a little less fractious this morning, thanks for giving me back the gob plug CG.
Great to see some good debates with the IM Versus OME thread and this one running along the same line, all goes to keeping the servers warm....thinking about starting a new thread entitled, 'Thinking of purchasing Optima's batteries', you know ....just for fun?
...I am soooo bad!
regards
Dave (with crossed fingers as he clicks the post button)
Great to see some good debates with the IM Versus OME thread and this one running along the same line, all goes to keeping the servers warm....thinking about starting a new thread entitled, 'Thinking of purchasing Optima's batteries', you know ....just for fun?
...I am soooo bad!regards
Dave (with crossed fingers as he clicks the post button)
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Call me a stick in the mud..........er.......... but if you need to modify a vehicle to go to China, or anywhere else you're going in the wrong vehicle, OR you're driving too fast.
Rob raises an interesting point. I inherited a load of wood working equipment and had to go Stourbridge-Cornwall to pick it up. I loaded the 80 right up to the roof lining full length and was dreading the drive back. Guess what, much better road holding than just with a driver. Under steer had gone and I could hang the tail out on a roundabout. That makes sense as I was going to put a weaker ARB on the back to cure this as I am using it with no load normally. Glad I didn't as I would not have got back.
My 80 has hard shocks I think. Standard when new in 1995. When I drove Jons 1997 I noticed it had softer standard suspension springs/shocks and when Jon checked the Pt nos on toyodiy they were different for those years. So what went on there? Competing with the comfort of the range Rover I suspect.
Rob raises an interesting point. I inherited a load of wood working equipment and had to go Stourbridge-Cornwall to pick it up. I loaded the 80 right up to the roof lining full length and was dreading the drive back. Guess what, much better road holding than just with a driver. Under steer had gone and I could hang the tail out on a roundabout. That makes sense as I was going to put a weaker ARB on the back to cure this as I am using it with no load normally. Glad I didn't as I would not have got back.
My 80 has hard shocks I think. Standard when new in 1995. When I drove Jons 1997 I noticed it had softer standard suspension springs/shocks and when Jon checked the Pt nos on toyodiy they were different for those years. So what went on there? Competing with the comfort of the range Rover I suspect.
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They don't do that gorgeous Candy one that they put in the electric Barbie Dolls.
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Perhaps the question might be " which genuine Toyota shock absorber/spring combo do I need ". They do vary. I'd be quite happy to set off to China today in mine fully loaded. If I damaged it that would be driver error not Landcruiser failure.
Serendipity
This has been an on going problem Gary with members accessing the site from Spain, a more appropriate answer from admin would have gone something like
"sorry to hear your having problems again Dave, I will mention it to Crispin for you".
regards
Dave
I am in a difference province tonight so will see how a couple of posts go:
Just this morning I picked up 10 25kg bags of cement in the LC so not quite to the weight of the OP. This was laid 4 wide across and then on top of each other in the area where the rearmost seats would normally be, of course I was only going to travel 4/5 kms but in all honesty I did not notice they were there. Only a few hundred yards up a river bed, again no test but I am going to stick to my guns on this, and state I would happily do any journey with 350 - 400 kg's WITHOUT modifying the suspension rates.
Maybe I am not hard enough on my LC, or perhaps my driving style is simply ok when driving with weight on it, I cannot say?
regards
Dave
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Well, there's been quite a healthy debate gone on here, interesting reading, too.
To Dave's quote, and TP's comment too, IIRC, I do realize there's more to it than just the length. (Ooh er missus!)
As a relative ignoramus on such technical matters, and a born coward to boot, I wouldn't dream of trying to work it all out by myself. So, when I purchased my OME lift kit, I had their local rep "design" it for me, and IMO he got it spot-on.
He took the book GVW and asked me to list all the bolt-on stuff that I planned to get. The original springing was so tired that I have no idea what Mr T's intentions were, straight from the showroom.
He explained to me that the springs should be matched to the final set-up of the truck, and implied that this would result in different rated springs depending on the weight distribution. I made a wish list (at that time) and after fitting the kit, the suspension was as hard as nails. So I was a bit disappointed to lose the comfy ride, but hopeful all would come right after depleting the wish list.
Sure enough, after fitting the F & R ARB bumpers, the front winch, the ARB roof rack, and the new dash mounted cup holder he got for me, the truck springing came to life, and it handled like a dream all those 8 years ago, and still does without a drop of suspension maintenance since then.
Bushings have buggered themselves, but that's only to be expected when doing a fair amount of medium to tricky off road, as I do.
Moral of this story, IMO, get someone knowledgable to design the kit, it's too expensive an investment to cock it up.
Good advice there Clive. Makes a lot of sense. Do it once. Do it right.
