The people have spoken

goodoldboy Nov 28, 2018

  1. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-uk-worse-off-brexit-scenarios-philip-hammond
    So the Brexit farce continues with most people , me included not really sure what's going on or it seems really caring.The idea that a few seriously rich folks would destroy a country's economy to pick over the wreckage seems less absurd.but hey at least we're getting sovereignty back whatever that means & all those nasty foreigners will have to go home (or not)
     
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  2. flint

    flint Well-Known Member Supporter I am in great_britain

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  3. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    We voted against Adolf Hitlers dream but the snowflakes are so arrogant they truly believe anyone who disagrees with them must surely be the embodiment of everything a snowflake despises .

    Insults are a great way to gather support , run the referendum again so out tomorrow with no deal wins by a landslide .
     
  4. flint

    flint Well-Known Member Supporter I am in great_britain

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    If the definition of a “snowflake” as an insult (taken from Fight Club ?) is someone who thinks that they are unique and special, then there are plenty of them in this country on both sides of the argument. As there were in 1975 when the first referendum was held with 67% wanting to stay in. It’s interesting that the precursor to UKIP, the Referendum Party, who hoped to overturn the results of that referendum was founded and financed by James Goldsmith, the anglo french billionaire. Studies have found from research taken amongst the very wealthy, roughly 1 in 5 showed psychopathic tendencies against 1 in 100 in the general population, tendencies that are loosely summarised as having little respect for others or their needs, a conviction that they are right despite evidence to the contrary and blaming others for their mistakes.
     
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  5. iwan_t24

    iwan_t24 Well-Known Member I am in wales

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    There's no golden egg! And I wish there was! Post brexit wealth is going to take a very long time to filter down to the likes of us. We live in the capitalist realm and we will have to pay for it!
     
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  6. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with that.Shit rolls downhill , it doesn't trickle.
     
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  7. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    My refined definition of a snowflake is someone who's head is so far up their own ass they can't swallow any opinion that doesn't match their own verbatim , and when offered opposing opinions they will throw all their toys out of the pram crying like a baby screaming prejudice , discrimination , victimization .

    They are generally a minority but in this messed up world created by the EU where intolerance will not be tolerated even an overwhelming majority must bow to the whims of "snowflakes"
     
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  8. flint

    flint Well-Known Member Supporter I am in great_britain

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    Fair enough, but as I said, there are plenty of them on both sides of the argument.
     
  9. Paddler Ed

    Paddler Ed Well-Known Member I am in australia

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    This came up on LinkedIn via a contact on there:

    "A few Brexit observations from 2016 and 2018.
    1) Guardian 2016 - Public will not accept a Brexit deal that leaves them worse off. https://lnkd.in/gxua9cm
    2) Guardian 2018 - UK significantly worse off under all Brexit scenarios in 15 years. https://lnkd.in/gfST5DS
    3) All of the 64% of over 65 year olds who voted for Brexit in 2016 will be at least 82 years of age in 15 years. That’s 2 years older than the average UK life expectancy (~80 years average). The 71% of 18-24 year olds who voted against Brexit in 2016 have at least 41 working years left until state retirement age as of today. And 54 years until they reach the average UK life expectancy. https://lnkd.in/gm8tbhg"
    The contact there is one of the guys I'd trust to know what they are talking about when looking at the future - he works with a VC fund internationally - it also reinforces the problem where those who are going to be affected the least by it managed to yield the most impact.
     
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  10. frank rabbets

    frank rabbets Well-Known Member

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    Leaving, for me, is like turkeys voting for Christmas. I have always thought that in the end we will not leave and it's looking more and more likely. Whatever ones views on Brexit we are now so intertwined with EU that there is not really a way out apart from leaving with no deal. I don't think even the leavers want that!!
     
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  11. BobMurphy

    BobMurphy Well-Known Member I am in scotland

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    Britain isn't going anywhere, we will still be trading and living with out European neighbours and the economics should function pretty much as they do now - they need us as much as we need them.

    When I voted in ('73 ??) I voted to join the Common Market. I didn't vote to hand the keys of our Government to an un-elected Assembly who would dictate out laws & customs over the heads of our elected representatives and whose Courts could over-rule our highest Court of Law.

    That, to my mind, is the reason behind Brexit (and why I voted to leave).

    Britain wasn't in the EU in 1914, 1939 or during the Berlin Air-lift in the '50s. We have stood by Europe in the past (since we stopped fighting the French) and I expect us to continue to do so.

    Bob.
     
  12. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    The problem here is that the whole media machine among others has conditioned us or at least attempted to fool us into believing that the UK will fall to its knees without the EU or a ‘deal’ and that leaving with no deal will have a serious negative impact. In reality ‘no deal’ means we trade with all who want to trade with us on WTO rules like we do with every other country outside the EU. This would include trade from the EU, something they do with us more than we do with them. Added to that we can separately negotiate our own trade deals with whoever we like including the EU (but not individual countries within the EU because the EU prohibits that). Once you look behind the mouthpieces who are spouting doom and gloom it doesn’t take long to see just who is likely to have influence. Take Mark Carney for example, do we really think he’s completely severed his ties with Goldman Sachs? Have we forgotten GS have had a hand in Greece joining the EU, even though it’s finances didn’t stack up, or when Greece decided to have a referendum, found Papandreou rapidly replaced with an ex Goldman Sachs member?

    Sovereignty (the power to govern ourselves within our own country and set our own laws, rather than have another country or body do that for us), I believe, was one of the major things this country fought to protect between 1914 and 1918 and 1939 and 1945.

    The EU wasn’t the EU when we joined. It was ‘The Common Market’ which as a trading bloc was not a bad idea. The thing is, we were lied to. It was never going to stop there, it was always going to be a Mega state ruled from Brussels.

    The idea that the U.K. somehow needs it’s neighbours to be able to survive is absurd when you look at the years between the last war and the day we joined the Common Market. Those years were some of the most productive, innovating and formative the UK has ever known. We led the world in many spheres. Not saying we don’t now, so the idea this will all grind to a halt and we will be cast back into the dark ages simply isn’t going to come true.

    They need us more than we need them. They’ve shown their true colours in the last two years more than ever before.
     
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  13. Rob Cowell

    Rob Cowell Well-Known Member I am in wales

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    I know this will get us nowhere but now we're into those worms :)

    We do not trade with every country outside the EU on WTO terms. If we ignore the 44% of all out exports that go to the EU, of the remaining, 57% we trade under agreements the EU has struck. So all of those need renegotiating from scratch. Those countries may really want a deal but these things don't move quickly, and expedited entry into the WTO has already been blocked by the US, Canada, Japan and others. So what we should say is we can trade under WTO rules like we do currently for 24% of our exports, but only when existing WTO members agree to let us.

    We already know that a number of large nations have said they would like very much to talk about trade deals and the terms of those trade deals would include our making it easier for their citizens to get visas to work here. That's a side issue, but an issue that has had plenty of focus pre and post referendum and sometimes gets lost in the excitement to reduce tariffs.

    The they need us more than we need them I've never understood. 44% of our exports go to the EU. 8% of the EU's exports come here. In monetary terms we do import more than we export, but as a percentage of all output they are nearly 6 times more important to us than we are to to them.

    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851
    https://bit.ly/2zvh49P (Eurostat : EU services to UK)
    http://trade.ec.europa.eu/tradehelp/statistics (have to enter the search yourself, EU goods to UK)
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-7-trillion-wto-deal-gets-provisional-support (UK delays in joining WTO)
     
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  14. grantw

    grantw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @Rob Cowell Thanks for saying that so succinctly and providing references. Something the brexiteer brigade seldom do.

    Further on the WTO stuff .. this is worth listening too.

     
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  15. Firewout

    Firewout Well-Known Member I am in belgium

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    Thank you Rob and Grant for the info.
    Living only 50 kms from the EU parliament in Brussels, there is no way that there will ever be a referendum to get Belgium out of the EU.
    When I hear everything about renegotiating all the trade agreements that the UK is facing and some other stuff, I'm glad I don't have to make the choice to stay or to leave.
    At the moment I have a good life, a steady job which pays the bills and let me save for my pension etc and I live in a country with good schools and fantastic healthcare. So I'm quite happy being member of the EU.
    But when I talk to the neighbour, a farmer, the story he tells is quite different with all the eu regulations and quota. Btw a lot of farmers get depressed..... I can imagine the same applies to fishermen etc.

    So the in or out question must have been a difficult one. And I wonder, did you people know all this stuff before the referendum? Did anybody know anything at all before the referendum?

    When I heard the outcome of the referendum, my first reaction was "omg, what have they done"
    To be honest, with the info we get here, I still feel the same : "omg what have you done!?"
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
    grantw likes this.
  16. frank rabbets

    frank rabbets Well-Known Member

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    The big/unsolvable problem is the Irish border. There isn't any type of fudging the problem either.

    What did the Brexteers want, a complete severance as in no deal or just a cherry picking deal ?
     
  17. MarkW

    MarkW Well-Known Member I am in morocco

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    What most brexiteers forget with the negotiations, whilst moaning it’s not what they’ve voted for, is that the referendum was a vote on stay or leave not how the leave was going to be delivered.

    Handy all the leave campaigners have disappeared once things got serious. Still Farage is doing well with his EU pension after his time as an unelected MEP
     
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  18. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    A bad choice is no choice at all.being ruled by an unaccountable elite in the pockets of corporations is not what I would choose but whether they are in Brussels or Westminster makes mo difference. The idea that the EU is some giant conspiracy & that the crooks in our own parliament would treat us any different is absurd.
     
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  19. chapel gate

    chapel gate Well-Known Member Supporter Promoted Company I am in england

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    We've been in this poo bag for 45 years.
    I really dont know how we managed for the previous 1000 years..
     
  20. chapel gate

    chapel gate Well-Known Member Supporter Promoted Company I am in england

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    Dammit!
    now im involved..
    i was trying so very hard not to be..
     
    goodoldboy likes this.
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