Upgraded Knuckle Wiper Seals from Longfield

[Brett]

These look interesting

http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/products/TOYOTA-KNUCKLE-LIFETIME-WIPER-SEALS.html

There's also a good post showing how to install here:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/ih8mud-com-vendor-marketplace/339142-toyota-knuckle-lifetime-wiper-seal.html

Looks like they can also be installed without removing the knuckle.

I think I'm going to try a set as my balls are slimy

 

[Gav Peter]

Are your balls smelly as well as slimey Brett? It may be that other components in the assembly need attention as well...

Actually, if these are as good as they say, it maybe the next group buy... I am suffering with slimey balls too despite a recent rebuild but it may be that my [se1p4mou]discharge[/se1p4mou] deposits are as they should be. Presumably there should be some grease on the ball...

 

[Brett]

Are your balls smelly as well as slimey Brett? It may be that other components in the assembly need attention as well...

Mmm, not sure, I haven't actually sniffed them I think some attention in that area is long overdue Although my recent reseal with new rubbers & felts etc hasn't lasted.

Presumably there should be some grease on the ball...

There should be a film of grease, not a bucketfull

 

[Gav Peter]

There should be a film of grease, not a bucketfull

In which case, I think mine are ok for now...

But if you do order the Longfields, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on them for future...

 

[Andrew Prince]

I think I'm going to try a set as my balls are slimy

Isn't this more of a sign that your inner axle oil seal might be leaking and diluting the CV grease and now it's all flowing out over the "balls"?
I don't see why worn wiper seals would cause an increase of grease on the balls...

A nice product from Longfield and nice to see someone still developing products for our beasts, when the world seems to be moving towards IFS

 

[Brett]

No, my inner seals are fine. If they were leaking I'd have grease migrating into the axle tube & mixing with the oil inside the diff housing.

I also filled my knuckles via the fill hole with this:

http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/DEFENDE ... 30456.html

Which is a little more liquid than regular moly grease.

 

[Andrew Prince]

I don't mean to go way OT or be argumentative here... BUT

No, my inner seals are fine. If they were leaking I'd have grease migrating into the axle tube & mixing with the oil inside the diff housing.

Other than overfilling the knuckle and forcing the grease into the axle tube, why would the grease flow into the axle? Diff oil is more runny than CV grease - inner oil seal is primarily there to keep the oil in the axle tube rather than the grease in the knuckle, no? Otherwise we'd be talking about the inner axle grease seal.
I know that grease can and does sometimes end up in the diff oil but AFAIK this is due to diff oil leaking into the knuckle and diluting the grease and the mixture can then seep back in. But mostly the runny grease/oil mix seeps out via the wipers and leaves you with slimy balls

Which is a little more liquid than regular moly grease.

Perhaps that's why your "balls" are more slimy than normal - the wipers were presumably designed to operate with a grease of a certain viscosity and if you're using less viscous grease then it stands to reason the wipers would be less effective

 

[Brett]

I don't mean to go way OT or be argumentative here... BUT

That's ok Andrew, no problem.

I don't see that you get that much oil travelling along the axle tube into the hub The oil is primarily to lubricate the differential gears isn't it? I thought the inner seal was to prevent the CV Grease mixing with the diff oil as bearings & CV's will happily run forever in oil but your differential gears definitely do not like moly grease?

On Land Rovers a common "modification" is to pull the inner axle seal & let the CV & wheel bearings run in oil, but to do this you have to overfill the diff & also run EP90 in the swivels.

Plus, my oil level in the diff is fine & oil is clean

 

[Andrew Prince]

I don't see that you get that much oil travelling along the axle tube into the hub

The oil does flow up and down the tube as one or other wheel articulates. With both ends of the axle stripped, you don't need to lift one end by much for the diff oil to run out if it's properly topped up.

The oil is primarily to lubricate the differential gears isn't it? I thought the inner seal was to prevent the CV Grease mixing with the diff oil as bearings & CV's will happily run forever in oil but your differential gears definitely do not like moly grease?

Yes, the diff oil is there to lubricate the diff - not sure the CV and swivel bearings enjoy running in oil any more than the diff likes moly grease. Stating the obvious, I think first prize is to keep them running in their intended lubricant. As the diff oil flows much more readily than the CV grease, I would think the inner axle seal is there to keep the oil in the diff/tube rather than the grease out. Other than the knuckle being way overfilled or the axle sucking grease in (because of a blocked breather and running hot & then cold through water), I still fail to see why the grease would ever flow into the axle tube?
But the diff oil will flow to the inner axle seal every time the front axle articulates significantly (and leak into the knuckle if the seal is leaking).

Anyway, apologies for the hijack Maybe someone will get some value out of my ramblings

Cheers,

 

[BobMurphy]

Mild Hi-Jack here . . .

When I ran an 88" Series-III LandRover, I fitted new swivels and all the seals, then put leather gaiters over the balls.

Available from Paddock Spares, here:

http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/SERIES/Axle/Swivel_Houing_Gaiter_Kit_-_Leather.html

I ran the Series-III for 10 years and never touched the swivels, these things worked really well and kept all the crud off.

Can you do something similar with the 80-Series LCs ??


Bob.
(KZJ95 Owner )

 

[Chris]

Andrew, I agree with your hypothesis - but in simple terms, the inner axle seals are to prevent the diff oil and CV grease from mixing. It matters little really which way it may or may not flow. It's a seal not a valve. So if it's doing its job, never the twain shall meet. I think that running the CVs in oil would lead to a very messy driveway. When my seals went, oil literally poured out when I was parked. The only way to stop it was to deliberately run the axle lower on oil. As you say, the oil is very mobile, but the grease stays put unless washed out by migrating oil. A degree of oil going up the axle tube is necessary in my view to keep the inner lip of the axle seal nice and healthy.

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Excess grease on your balls can also be a sign there's too much play in your swivel bearings

 

[Chris]

Or possibly that your nuts have sheared off. Which I understand can be quite unpleasant.

C

 

[Dave Docwra]

I always [s:y8o9c5qo]talk[/s:y8o9c5qo] torque mine up..

 

[Brett]

I think that running the CVs in oil would lead to a very messy driveway. When my seals went, oil literally poured out when I was parked.

Chris, I wasn't suggesting that we should start running Oil in Land Cruiser knuckles, This obviously wouldn't work as the wiper seals are next to useless I was just trying to demonstrate that as a lubricant, there are advantages in using oil over grease.

In Land Rovers until, I think it was approx 1995, all models ran gear oil in the swivels & CV Failure through wear was practically unheard of. Breakages were something else The swivels have a drain & fill plug for this purpose.

People started to purposely run the wheel bearings in oil after finding that when the inner axle seal was passing, the effect was the bearings were lasting indefintiely. People then started to remove the inner axle seal to purposely run the whole shooting match in gear oil.

The Grease in the swivels was only introduced to reduce servicing, all the newer models with live axles don't have a drain plug in the swivel anymore & are filled "for life" from the factory.

Needless to say, CV's wearing out is now common (as per Toyota)

 

[Chris]

Sure, Brett of course. I know that but I wanted to make sure that other people didn't see it as an option. We constantly get 'I read on a forum somewhere that....'
I simply wanted to make sure that we weren't party to misinformation. But on a practical note, you should know if your inner seals are ok by the lack of oil on your drive. There is no mistaking that! It pours out. Stops everything going rusty though. I am still not sure about the need to pack the swivel housing so full of grease though. When I pulled my driveshafts, the cv grease was exactly where I left it - in the cvs. The swivel only really touches on the top and bottom bearings. So what IS all that grease actually for?

Chris

 

[Julian Voelcker]

Chris,

Whilst grease on your driveway is a common indication of the inner axle seal going, you will be surprised at the number of trucks we see where the balls look fine but on inspecting the diff it is filled with a grey sludge from the CV grease.

With the factory breather there is a valve so as the axle heats up air is expelled, but then as it cools down when parked or even suddenly when going swimming, you end up with negative pressure in the axle which will naturally lead to grease being sucked into the diff if the inner axle seal is the slightest bit weak.

This tends to happen before you get the leaks at the knuckles so always worth checking the oil quality via the fill plug on a regular basis. CVs can survive in oil for a little while and are relatively cheap to replace - diffs on the other hand definitely do not like grease and are expensive to replace - I have a growing collection of knackered front diffs here as a proof of this.



The reason why there is grease in the knuckles is because Toyota recognise that it is tricky holding back oil with a wiper seal so they gave up and went for grease which is essentially oil thickened up with a compound called soap.


Going back to the original longfield product I think it would be a good idea if you have really shiney balls, but since most of the ones we see are pretty rough and pitted I would be interested to see how long they would last.

 

[Bat21]

Chris,

With the factory breather there is a valve so as the axle heats up air is expelled, but then as it cools down when parked or even suddenly when going swimming, you end up with negative pressure in the axle which will naturally lead to grease being sucked into the diff if the inner axle seal is the slightest bit weak.

This happened on our recent Morocco trip. The 50+ degree heat obviously caused the air in the axle tube to heat up and expand. When it cooled the valve stopped the air coming back in via the breather. The result was, as Julian says, CV grease being sucked back into the diff.

I drilled the breather union that screws into the axle tube out to 5mm before the trip.

The valve has now been removed and the breather tube extended up into the engine bay.

 

[Chris]

My question was about why the swivel needs to be filled with grease. I get the rest and I have cleared my breathers out like Paul. Seems to affect 80 axles far more than it does on the 90 interestingly. But question remains as to why the swivel needs to be packed. I understand the difference between oil and grease Julian and why each half has either in it. I'm just baffled as to why there needs to be so much in there when it largely seems to stay put in the CV. What is it lubricating? No way does it migrate from the housing into the CV. And it doesn't particularly lubricate the swivel bearings either. When I cracked mine open for the first time, the CV had grease in but there wasn't any in the swivel - to speak of anyway. It was very clean.

I never had grease on the drive, I had oil. The seals had gone and the diff oil just ran out when I parked up. There was never any grease in the oil. When I drained the diff it was fine.

Chris