Use of bow shackles when setting a winch line

[Chris]

Now I look at it Gav I can't help wondering if I have seen this somewhere before. It might have been a winch mount actually. Instead of it being solid, it was box and you slid a winch tray into it. Might have been a TBR thing. There wasn't a slit though. It just bolted onto one side of the tow point.

I'm not sure that it couldn't be machined out of alloy actually. it would be big enough to be very strong in ally.

 

[Ben]

Chris

As I'm very new to recovery topic I would like to know how to connect a recovery hook to my ARB bumper so it's safe and correct. I found the following photos on the web but it look like your first photos in that it will put a lot of force on the pin.

Ideally run a bridle (short strop) between the 2 D shackles to spread the load evenly over both sides of the bumper and both chassis rails. Then attach the winch line to the middle of the bridle.

If your really stuck and don't do this you will twist the chassis.

 

[PETE BELL]

aye i like that Cris im in agreement, good thinking

 

[Doodle]

The bridle I have came with a pair of narrower D-shackles, so in theory it should be less prone to spreading than a bow shackle (I think?)

 

[Chris]

It's a good method Ben, but you can't always do that. In fact this weekend I deff didn't want to. I really needed an off set pull. I was just about on the roll over limit and needed to move the truck in a particular way. However, knowing all of these methods gives you the range to choose from

I may get some pics later of the rescue. I used a snatch block off a tree from the other vehicle to provide some sideways pull rather than simply straight. It was clear that most hadn't seen a pull-divert like that before.

Always plan the recovery. I see so many people just leap straight in and wonder why it goes wrong.

 

[Towpack]

Right Marius. Sorry it took me so long. I'm back and it's sorted. All I'll do is make an adaptor like this... It bolts onto the bumper and gives you an nice attachment point that's thicker than the original


View attachment 7489

This would spread the load on the shackle pin but then would the weak point be the bolt as it still goes through the narrow bumper mount?

 

[Chris]

Hmm, I don't think so. The bolt would be 20 something mm too. As big as would go through the eye in the bumper. The slot would be a close fit so as it's tightened, it would clamp pretty hard onto the thinner plate of the bumper eye. Of course it doesn't have to be a shackle on the other end. It could be a recovery hook, an eye bolt or whatever.

 

[clivehorridge]

Chris

As I'm very new to recovery topic I would like to know how to connect a recovery hook to my ARB bumper so it's safe and correct. I found the following photos on the web but it look like your first photos in that it will put a lot of force on the pin.

Hi Marius, although quite pretty, I'm very disappointed with my ARB front bumper. The "tags" they provide for the high-lift are no more than that and despite being double thickness, they're way too flimsy, IMHO, for snatching.

A straight tow is all they're good for, but I wouldn't want to connect a kinetic to them.

As for Ben's idea of mounting a strop between them, the idea is good, but in practice they're so thin that they would pull together like a cross-eyed dog! I've mounted a piece of 4" RSJ across mine behind the front face and under the winch. It's welded all round and has extra triangular fillets which go through the front face and lay flat alongside/against the standard mounts. These have been cut to the same profile and drilled so now I have the standard mount with double the thickness and their attached to something decent, the RSJ.

I admit this may be overkill, but I'd bent those standard brackets so many times (on rocks and stuff) and bending them back was so easy by hand with a 12" length of gas pipe, which shows how flimsy they are.

I'm nowhere near as experienced as Chris when it comes to winching and snatching, but I've done a fair bit.

I'd recommend at the least to have some spreader plates mounted behind the flat front face of the bumper and some decent snatch mounts bolted through (or welded). These would have to be as close to the triangular strengthening fillets behind the front face, as possible. Even then I wouldn't be too sure that a decent snatch wouldn't do some damage to the ARB.

Sorry to sound negative, but I am very unimpressed by ARB's front bumper, the rear is much more sturdy. I suppose the front should be more of a shock absorbing unit than the rear needs to be, but in all honesty, it really is a joke. It rusted like fcuk as well in less than 2 years, I've had to have it completely refurbished and powder coated again.

Not impressed. Better still, why not bolt some custom made snatch mounts from the bumper mounts on the chassis. I know these are a pain when you're in deep mud, but at least you'll know they'll hold.

 

[Gary820]

Done a winch training thing before (had to do it when I was a site marshal) and don't recall anything about what way to use the shackle?! It covered safety and techniques etc, it was a few years back so could've been told to hop on one leg while rubbing my ear for best results and forgot that too!!!

I prefer to use a bridle for an even pull where possible but as Chris says not always possible.
I used to find far too often a lack of decent recovery points on vehicles and used to connect a strap to the vehicle being recovered, either by a shackle or wherever was most appropriate.

I can't say I've had the same recovery twice so gear gets rigged according to the situation, never had a shackle fail on me and I know I'd of had them both ways, havent bent a pin either. snapped my plasma before (my own stupid fault). Done a few strange recoveries before like a corsa stuck down a green lane which took a bit of thinking about (got pics somewhere)

 

[Paddler Ed]

Right Marius. Sorry it took me so long. I'm back and it's sorted. All I'll do is make an adaptor like this... It bolts onto the bumper and gives you an nice attachment point that's thicker than the original


View attachment 7489

Is it worth doing 2 versions? One as per the diagram, and one with one of the holes at 90* to the other so that the attachment can be made at an angle to one side?

 

[Chris]

What got me going was that I bent a pin this weekend. Someone rigged up for me as I was sort of busy trying not to be on my roof and they had the shackle the other way around. We had to hammer it apart as it had distorted and bent the pin. OK you could say well you should have had a bigger link. Yep maybe, but it just showed that it's possible. I've had these shackles for years, never damaged one - but I have always rigged the 'right' way round.

Could make several versions, but going with Mk I first and we'll see how it comes out. I really don't want to start welding on a brand new £1000 bumper but I hear the stories and do think it might be necessary. I have the original pig tails too and I think I shall be leaving those on. This is not going to be an off roader so really this is a bit hypothetical. But what's the point if you can't have a little play with ideas?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I thought those tabs on the ARB were only designed for jacking not recovery? I'm sure we've seen pictures of ripped ones from them being used as recovery points.

 

[Chris]

When it stops hammering it down, I shall go and have a look at mine!

They look like recovery points in the pic though. Sure I can come up with something.

 

[clivehorridge]

When it stops hammering it down, I shall go and have a look at mine!

They look like recovery points in the pic though. Sure I can come up with something.

For sure they're designed as jacking points, I've got the ARB adapter thingy that gives a safe cradle for the high-lift.

As for recovery, I'm not convinced at all. A straight pull may be OK but there's no lateral strength in them at all, stropping them together with a pull in the centre would bend them easily. (been ther and dunnit!).


It doesn't stop them from being strengthened though, that's what I did (twice as thick) and they're fine now.

 

[Marius De Kock]

I thought those tabs on the ARB were only designed for jacking not recovery? I'm sure we've seen pictures of ripped ones from them being used as recovery points.

I'm now very disappointed with this news. I so hoped in getting the ARB bumper it would be the real deal (strong with recovery points). Chris you need to come up with and idea to improve the bumper please.

 

[clivehorridge]

I'm now very disappointed with this news. I so hoped in getting the ARB bumper it would be the real deal (strong with recovery points). Chris you need to come up with and idea to improve the bumper please.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Marius, I thought the same when I shelled out my hard-earned. All is not lost, apart from the rusting issue (which I don't mind accepting may be a one off in my case) they're tidy units, but I'm still convinced they're not strong enough where they net to be.

I'm a fan of over-engineering too so it's only my opinion. The fabricator that I took mine to for strengthening laughed at it, quite embarrassing for me at the time. His main concern was the lack of lateral strength which without it, would transfer any lateral force directly to the chassis and bend the chassis. Some forces on a snatch at an angle can exceed 20 tonnes + and that ain't good. The 80 has quite long rails on the chassis at the front and I'm (and he's) not convinced the chassis would take that.

Strengthening is the answer and it's doable.

 

[stumog]

I have seen a few where they have put and extra piece of 6mm thick metal nxt to it then bolted it to the lower part of the bumper. this is one of the things i think should not have to be done when you are paying £1000 for a bumper it should be safe to use from the box. with regard to clive have to repaint his after 2 years really makes me think are these bumpers up to the job we want.

what are the tjm ones like? has any body looked at the frogs island bunper as i like the look of that but not seen one in the fleash.

stu

 

[Marius De Kock]

Mine started to rust from the very day I installed it. The same go's for the Old Man Emu suspension as it looks like it's 10 years old with the searing damper loosing it's paint almost completely. Not good.

 

[clivehorridge]

Mine started to rust from the very day I installed it. The same go's for the Old Man Emu suspension as it looks like it's 10 years old with the searing damper loosing it's paint almost completely. Not good.

The OME shocks and damper have faired reasonably IMO on mine, they're scratched and blemished yes, after 6+ years under the truck, but for me I expect that.

The winch bumper is a different matter, it should be more like bodywork, but on steroids! I ended up grit blasting mine and having some kind of plasma zinc coating (the wording the guy used was much more complicated than that but I don't remember them). I'm told this treatment is more penetrating than galvanizing.

After, it had fresh powder coating, and so far (6 months) it's doing OK.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

It's a while since I had one but I seem to remember there is some good sturdy box section behind the front facade, that fits over the end of the chassis rails to mount the bumper and maybe you can cut a slot / hole in the front of the bumper to pass a tow point through, similar to what Chris drew, or loops like mine which you can get from Gwyn Lewis on ebay for less that the trouble of making them yourself?