Use of bow shackles when setting a winch line

[Olazz]

This is from another site and is a response from ARB to a Prado owner.

The ARB bar comes with towing eyes in the mount frame, these are design for flat towing as the Prado does not come with any such points from the factory. Being a winch bull bar, this bar has been tested to withstand the stresses and strains of warn winches.

Winches are quite different too a snatch recovery when it come to loads place on the bull bar. The winch has a “stall” point that prevents over loading at the winches capability so that the winch is operated with in its capability, where as a snatch recovery can have an uncontrolled load placed on the recovery points of the bogged vehicle. The load on the bogged vehicle is completely dependant on the recovering vehicle’s speed and the ability of the snatch strap to stretch and recoil with in its limits. Most snatch straps are rated to 8000kg breaking strain in comparison to a winches maximum load of 4100kg for a 9000lb winch.

In practice the two towing points on the mount frame of the ARB bar can be used in a recovery situation where a bridal is used to share the load between the tow points and the recovering vehicle is driven at a very moderate speed to tow the vehicle out rather then snatch it out.

I hope this helps, if you have any further questions please call and I’d be happy to answer them.

Regards,

I have custom made recovery hooks on my truck, and never gave the ARB "eyes" much thought. I may well have at some time in the future used them for recovery, but having now learnt the above, I shan't.

 

[Chris]

Just don't get stuck.

Keeps it nice and simple then and don't rescue any idiots you come across. Just keep driving. They'd only do the same.

Arf arf.

 

[froggy Steve]

Apart from the tie down/tow hooks, and a tow bar, I have no other 'recovery points' on my 95. Can anyone point me in the right direction to buy some that bolt on or am I being a bit daft? I am thinking the worse if we ever get to go anywhere!
Steve

 

[Doodle]

I made some for mine from 10mm steel angle section, fairly easy to do.

 

[froggy Steve]

If I was still working at the last company before we legged it to France, I could have knocked stuff out like this by the ton! We had miles of steel in all profiles/sections, rows of brand new saws, band and circular, rows of universal iron workers that could punch, bend, crop, sheet angle, plate, bar and all sorts. (we used to sell this kit and had a demo room full of toys to play with) PROSAW LTD That would have been a nice Saturday morning job as I only lived down the road! Oh the good old days.........
Now I have a hammer and a black & Decker

Steve

 

[clivehorridge]

I beefed up my ARB with a piece of 150mm x 50mm x 8mm channel that bridges the chassis rails, plus 6mm bracing webs 2 of which protrude trough the front face and welded to the existing lifting eyes.
I was worried before that a snatch recovery from just one side may have twisted the chassis. Not too impressed with ARB front bumpers TBH, the rear is a much better product.

 

[Ben]

Apart from the tie down/tow hooks, and a tow bar, I have no other 'recovery points' on my 95. Can anyone point me in the right direction to buy some that bolt on or am I being a bit daft? I am thinking the worse if we ever get to go anywhere!
Steve

You can get these ones, not sure if they will line up with existing holes though or not.

http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/recovery/warn-recovery-hook-black/prod_287.html

 

[moggy1968]

To go back to the original point. I recently went on a course on winching so decided to ask the questions raised on here re bow shackles vs D shackles.

D shackles are only suitable for a straight pull. If you go off axis (as many recoveries will)you need bow shackles. The reason for this is that because it is straight edged the hook going through a D shackle can slip, causing unspecified and unknown shock loads through the equipment. On a bow shackle the hook will simply slide gently round the bow to find it's natural position. For the same reason, the hook should always be placed in the bow, not on the pin. the strop goes on the pin side. So, there really seems little point in having D shackles as you would have to double up with bow shackles on off axis pulls

here's a piccie of my Hilux being winched during the course, showing the correct use of a shackle and strop. Please note, I wasn't stuck, it was for training!!! Because we were using the vehicles tow points, we have rigged a bridal to spread the load (as ARB recommend above).



No manufacturer is going to guarantee their product for snatch recovery because of the potential for enormous forces, and of course the stupidity of some people. Someone, somewhere, would use a 30 ton rope at 50mph and then complain the winch bar broke!!

Snatch recovery is an activity considered so dangerous the army will only allow it on armoured vehicles.

 

[Chris]

There you go. That's what I said. Strap on the pin, spread the load, hook or hard recovery point in the bow. Makes complete sense.
Never been a fan of snatch recoveries. I prefer application of considered steady force in the right place. Sometimes though I have to admit, throwing tonnes of force at it all in one go does work.

Had a good play day on Sunday but was looking at what some people pass off as recovery points. I don't consider something held on with an 8mm bolt as suitable. I seemed to be in a minority there.

 

[Ben]

I flicked through the latest landrover magazine at work today, one of the ones from the UK.

They had a section about winching supposedly written by a recovery specialist who trains people.

Two things he said which stuck out as being wrong.

Firstly he said its OK to use a towball as a recovery point.

Secondly he said a winch recovery should be the last resort and that you should try a snatch recovery first.

 

[clivehorridge]

I have to say that any intelligent person would try a controlled "tow" recovery before they resort to a snatch. It's sad that most accidents that I've seen reported involve not so intelligent approaches to recovery, hence failures with sometimes tragic consequences.

I've enjoyed all the discussions on the thread, even if there's no definitive conclusions, it at least promotes proper reasoning and thought in specific situations. Let's face it, there are few identical recovery situations in reality, one vehicle up to its axles in mud may have totally different force and resistance characteristics from the next vehicle in comparatively similar circumstances. Horses for courses.

If it's only me that has learned something, the thread has been a success!

Thanks to all

 

[moggy1968]

HOw about this as a 'what would I do'?' exercise?

http://jalopnik.com/you-have-never-seen-two-trucks-stuck-worse-than-this-1457645988?autoplay=1

my own thoughts:

time spent digging is time wisely spent, I would have dug away round the wheels, then put the waffle boards underneath, it looks as though they did neither of those things. The boards look to be on the ground next to the truck, not much use there!!



Also air the tyres down to about 10psi.



now they're fooked - maybe they can use the buggy to right the other truck, then continue as they were, they were making progress slowly, after doing the above and maybe losing some weight, but, they don't have much time, once the water gets up it will wash the sand from around your wheels and you'll just sink further, and eventually probably roll. If the brakes wouldn't hold the winch vehicle how about using the buggy as an anchor tied to the rear of the truck doing the recovery, and using a snatch block to reduce the load



Shows the dangers of overloaded, top heavy vehicles!



still, at least they have a boat!!



Easy to be wise after the event in the comfort of your living room though.



Always good to play the what if game, gives you 'clubs in your golf bag' for if you find yourself in a similar situation. It's a good game to play before you go into a dodgy situation as well. If they had played the what if game then they may have decided to send the vehicle with the shit brakes in first so the recovery vehicle was fully working.

 

[clivehorridge]

As you say, hindsight from the living room is easy! Still, they seemed to rush into the first thing that came into their heads, instead of planning the recovery. I've been in a similar situation to them when we got a Defedner stuck recovering a boat onto a trailer with an incoming tide. Scary and we ended up with a tracked backacter pulling it out. Even the tracks were bogging on that and he used the bucket to pull us both out of the sea!

I think he could have used the winch to better effect, the snatch as first approach was a bit naughty IMO. He could have parked well up on the grass and winched from a stable place, using the waffles under the stricken vehicle with better effect.

Again, easy with 20/20 vision!

 

[Chas]

I'm not saying it was for the camera but why did he change direction on the last pull?

 

[grantw]

I'm not saying it was for the camera but why did he change direction on the last pull?

Watching that again it does seem very odd to change direction like that. Could very well be panic setting in ... or just for the camera. It does seem like they had a serious film crew with them so it could be some creative directing kicking in.