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Absolutely Gutted In Morocco

Since it's been two and a half years now ......emotional wounds have healed.....
9 minutes after we start trying to put the fire out I sadly understood it is not going to happen!...And first picture was taken.

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I can't find words to describe how I felt...
Someone yelled "Byron where's you passport?!"
He got in the truck trying to reach the glove compartment and get his passport and the truck paperwork out.
.....then we only watched helpless
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..and watched...
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That is just gut wrenching... But as has been said, all arms and legs and heads got out... As much as I love my cruiser and think of it as a family member.. That is the only important thing in the end.
 
After a few looong hours...fridge still burning
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And sunset in Western Sahara
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We were about to spend the night there as it got dark. And suddenly around midnight a whole army showed up. They were looking for us. The commander ordered the truck remains being removed from site
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then we had a four hour drive to the nearest town. What a night!....
...............................................................
 
After a few looong hours...fridge still burningView attachment 159621 View attachment 159622 View attachment 159623

And sunset in Western SaharaView attachment 159624

We were about to spend the night there as it got dark. And suddenly around midnight a whole army showed up. They were looking for us. The commander ordered the truck remains being removed from siteView attachment 159625
then we had a four hour drive to the nearest town. What a night!....
...............................................................

Truly tragic.
Currently feeling sorry for myself with a broken down truck in Italy, the engine has let go big style, but looking at these pics my problems seem pretty minor :disrelieved:
 
Are these a 'real thing' ... If so, it maybe worth carrying one, I am sure it could be used as general tarp for cover too.

 
Are these a 'real thing' ... If so, it maybe worth carrying one, I am sure it could be used as general tarp for cover too.


Sure it put the fire out, but doubtful that it would save the destruction of a vehicle...
 
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The problem, I think, was that it started electrically KB and as such would continue to burn until the battery was depleted.

I cannot believe this is now 2.5 years on. I still think about it regularly…and I wasn’t even there!!

These pics are truly horrible, but it’s hard not to look.

Have I put a non plastic Bowden cable to my bonnet catch- no.
Have I fitted a battery shut off-no.

Much food for thought here.
 
Got a mention along with @MarkW on Expedition Portal:


I did wonder when I saw the Collie, UK plates and Mark's name if it was the same - then the mention of the 80 made me certain.
 
Have I put a non plastic Bowden cable to my bonnet catch- no.

I've been thinking about this for a while too Rich, I feel like if these guys had been able to open the bonnet then it could have been a very different story, both in terms of disconnecting the battery (if it was electrical), and/ or getting the flames out.

I'd like to put in some sort of 'back-up' cable in case the main one fails. Like you say, food for thought.
 
You could ditch the cable and just put bonnet pins in instead. I said at the time, my view is it's easy to over think this stuff. What it it catches fire in the middle of the night when you're in a hotel. What if it catches fire when you're all in a restaurant? What if it catches fire ....

Better to put effort into it not catching fire. Or, every time you stop, pull the bonnet release. Maybe just fit a brand new cable before you leave ..

Or .....
 
Somehow with all this virus stuff I had missed Chris' report on the Expedition Portal,I believe the article was also in a Christmas edition of the Overland Journal as well.

Early last year Chris contacted me about a film he was planning to make about this trip and asked if I could run as a support vehicle and transport the cameraman and photographer, somewhere along the line the film was abandoned with a concern it was turning into a Hollywood production, something neither Chris or I had time for with other obligations in the region. Our route took us a different way from Smara than the one taken with Byron in 2017 so we missed the location.

Last September I was back in the WS with another tour group and we stopped in at the site as we passed, only sign of the events was a lump of molten aluminium from a wheel and a couple of beer cans (removed from the site). September is not an ideal time for the WS and although we reached the Dig Tree, the weather was against us with 50+ degree temperatures and a vicious sand storm. I blundered around in the heat and sand for a while but couldn't find the fuel cache.

Since the event unfolded, just over 3 years ago now, I have fitted secondary bonnet release that's external to the car along with manual disconnects for the batteries and I'm also planning a full plumbed in fire extinguisher like race cars have to get better protection from potential fires. For the sake of a few hundred pounds for the system, its beyond me why people will spend huge amounts of money on overland kit they don't need but won't spend a small amount on better fire systems.

As we saw first hand, an event like this can so easily turn a fun trip into a life and death situation, if it had been a solo vehicle or a petrol truck things could have been so much worse.
 
Also worth noting that the failure with the bonnet release would have happened with a new cable or and old one, its a design issue that caused the failure, where the plastic sheath melts and stops the cable operating. Its a common issue with all vehicle engine fires and well documented by fire services around the world. The only way to avoid is to replace the cable with one with no plastic sheath, bonnet pins or a secondary release mechanism
 
What a sickener to lose your cruiser like that, while you can only watch. Glad you all ok
 
I lost mine on the drive. No one there to pull the bonnet release cable whether new, old or fire resistant. So I can speak from a point of experience.

No the engine hasn't been removed - it melted.


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A small price to pay for a decent fire system Higgy, £300 is nothing when people talk about putting £1000 lithium batteries into overland builds. No need for one in date for motorsport use either and a hunt around various race part groups will land you an out of date set up for half the price as racers upgrade to an approved system.

Reading the thread through from the beginning is well worth the time for anyone new to this event. lots of good info from the people who were actually there dealing with the situation. Even being there I had forgotten a few details. Byron's post detailing the events states he popped the bonnet as soon as he saw the problem, but we still couldn't get it open.

Unfortunately this incident has been used by various self proclaimed "experts" and posted elsewhere on the internet by people trying to say we had the wrong extinguishers, tackled the fire incorrectly etc. its a sad part of the community that the keyboards warriors feel they know better from the safety of their sofa. Never has anyone doing this asked those involved about what actually happened.

A few pages back several of ASPW videos were posted on emergency preparedness, made in conjunction with Mac from Driven to Extremes. Over the last couple of years I've had the opportunity to discuss the incident with Mac (he lives just down the road from me) and some of the info will be used for his training courses in the near future.
 
I dont know anything about these systems Mark thats why i didnt add a comment, I just posted the Link, But they seem a good enough and simple enough idea... And yes its sad about the armchair critics, Something we have to live with..... If you were not there keep your mouth shut is my Philosophy... But constructive comments are always welcome......
 
Also worth noting that the failure with the bonnet release would have happened with a new cable or and old one, its a design issue that caused the failure, where the plastic sheath melts and stops the cable operating.
Having read this I've just 're arranged the CTEK .I had the mains cable going up the engine bay so I could close the bonnet & lock up.I've now got the bonnet resting on a piece of wood.
 
I’m guessing the vast majority of vehicle fires start with an electrical fault. Careless use of smoking material and brake fluid on a hot manifold aside.
This said, by far the best and low cost means of preventing this sort of thing happening is to make sure the electrical installation is done to a good standard and is safe.
Many times I have seen perfectly neat installations that the owner is convinced are safe or ‘work really well’ that are potential sources of fire.
The fact is, a modified truck is more likely to have additional electrical circuits from winches to LED lighting and it is essential that some basic rules are followed to minimise the risk of fire.
The first thing is to fuse for the wire size correctly. If you fit 10A wire (vehicle wiring seems to be sold as X Amp wire) don’t expect it to carry 10A from front of truck to back AND blow a 10A fuse under the bonnet if it shorts in the back. Chances are the wire will get hot before the fuse melts. A factor of 2:1 is a good safety margin.
Secondly, correct fuse placement is essential. For a fuse to protect the cable it should be at or as close as possible to, the point the cable size reduces. For example you feed a bus bar with 100 A cable, and wish to feed LED lights which draw 2A. 10A cable is used to the lights and fused at the light switch, 1 metre away at 2A. This is fine for stopping the light drawing too much load on the cable, but if the cable gets pinched and earths to the body before the fuse, it’s fused at the same as the 100A cable and will likely get so hot it glows without blowing that fuse. Easiest way to prevent this is to use a fusebox with a built in bus bar that is sufficiently rated. If connections are taken from a battery, either use a fusebox that bolts to the battery terminal or a cable heavy enough to withstand a full battery discharging into it, well protected and as short as possible to your fuse box.
Thirdly is to prevent damage to the cable by vibration or in any type of accident, hence the easiest thing is to mount a fuse at the battery.

This doesn’t preclude taking cables to convenient locations for switches and fuses. Convenience means easy access if a problem occurs, just make sure the cable to the fusebox is sized and fused correctly and protected along its route from any damage for example by using ribbed conduit and rubber grommets, and tying down to prevent movement. Vibration is the enemy.

The other thing to bear in mind is, what are the unintended consequences of an alteration? If you uprate the alternator from a 60A to a 150A, the cable will no longer be big enough to take the full 150A , if it is ever utilised for any length of time. Adding leisure batteries, especially lithium can result in extra current being available into the wiring.
Starter cables aren’t fused on vehicles generally, because they are sized to carry the full capacity of the battery until it is depleted in the event of a short circuit and so routed as to minimise the possibility of damage. EG in a front end collision, the battery (ies) will likely be damaged and even if the cable is solidly earthed, it will not get so hot as to cause a fire. With batteries in the back, if they are connected into the rest of the system to charge from the vehicle then they could back-feed into the fault. So again, fusing at the battery (or change of cable size) is essential particularly with lithium which can discharge huge currents very quickly.
So:
Think about where to site electrical fuses, switches and relays for accessibility and to avoid damage.
Size cables correctly, ideally oversize.
Fuse as close to the battery or change of cable size to protect the smaller cable.
Prevent cables from being damaged by using conduit, cable ties and grommets or bushings to make holes less of a point of sharpness.

Lastly on the 80 don’t use the passenger side battery for any connection. Why? Because during start it could receive 24V if it has a connection to the body somewhere. Or if used for a winch for example could cause a major short circuit at first start. Also put any battery isolators and fuses in the + for similar reason. Convention to disconnect the negative of a battery first is that if your spanner touches down it won’t cause a short circuit and possible explosion.

Very lastly, ensure every part of your circuit can take the current. Check for small size cables (80 series RH battery - to body for example) and up-rate if necessary.

Very very lastly, protect terminals from metal items dropping on them and causing a short circuit. Rubber boots and caps etc are great or enclose so they are out of harms way. Heat shrink around bare cable-end terminals to keep as little as possible exposed.

Stick to these rules and chances are you’ll never need that bonnet release, battery isolator or installed extinguisher.

Stay safe all.
 
Something I have noticed on various custom wiring installs is people fuse to protect the device/gadget whatever and not the cable. So for example they fit a radio/cd player and the unit it states fit a 10 amp fuse for example, and in fact many have the fuse in the back of the radio or in the connecting loom, I then see a feed taken direct from the battery with 20 amp or greater cable, this cable is NOT protected by the fuse in the radio!

I am a bit OTT with cabling and always over spec the current carrying capacity and fuse as near as is practical to the batteries, FWIW I followed Mercedes idea by fitting 'Cube' fuses at the battery terminals, so if a battery cable gets cut for example in an accident the current will cut off. The original 24v wiring on the 80 runs over the fan cowling to protect it from an impact to the front of the vehicle, I run the cables behind the grill so the fused battery terminals give just a little extra insurance and peace of mind.

regards

Dave
 
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