D4D injectors.

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Has anyone on here had any experience of having their D4D injectors overhauled and if so what difference it made? Whilst I like everything about the Collie I'm wondering if having the injectors overhauled will quieten the "diesel rattle" which a bit of an annoyance at certain revs/throttle openings.
I havn't been in another one to compare except Trevors original 120 which was noisy also but Trev did say the injectors could do with attention at the time.
Research suggests this might not be a cheap exercise.

 

[GeekOKent]

This topic is of interest to me as will, for exactly the same reasons

 

[silvercruiser]

Lol me too. The D4D is not a quite beast

My concern is getting them done and it sounds the same, being a complete waste of time and money.

I'm sure Gary had his done through Toyota when he had his LC5 and he posted the company details that did the testing for Toyota.

 

[BobMurphy]

I overhauled my daughter's '07 RAV4 and had the D-4D injectors overhauled. I don't know if these 2.2 litre motor injectors are different to those in the 3.0 litre, but I see no reason to suppose they are (My '90' has the 1KZ-TE motor).

One proved to be faulty and had to be exchanged, the other three were overhauled. The bill came to £338.40.

I had the head skimmed and pressure tested as well, this included removing a seized Glow Plug and putting a thread insert in (£216.00).

I went to :

R&M Injection Services Ltd.,
Cappers Farm,
83b Station Road,
Armadale,
EH48 3LJ.
[email protected]

Is the motor quieter ?? difficult to say as I didn't drive it much before if broke down, but it now runs well - it had blown its head gasket - and I'm happy, even if it did cost me around £1,400 all-up.

The 16-valve 2.2 litre has hydraulic tappets - is this the same on the 3.0 litre ??

I know you all love pictures .

I'm afraid I didn't take a picture of a complete Injector, but '07, Mk III RAV4 Injectors are on the net if you want to do a comparison.

Hope this helps.

Bob.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Lol me too. The D4D is not a quite beast

My concern is getting them done and it sounds the same, being a complete waste of time and money.
.

This is my concern Joe, however I can't believe Toyota would ever have been able to sell such a rattley thing to the public when new, hence my post.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Put recon injectors in my 120. Quieter and stopped surging / engine rocking which I would get stopped in drive. Did mine because Techstream showed them well out of range.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Put recon injectors in my 120. Quieter and stopped surging / engine rocking which I would get stopped in drive. Did mine because Techstream showed them well out of range.

Did you have your own injectors overhauled, get exchange ones, or buy new ones Rob?

 

[Rob Cowell]

Had them on exchange from Specialist Diesel Injection Services.

 

[Bob]

I've always found the motor a bit noisy, and rattly on startup, but after about 3 min of running on the road it quietens, very noticeably and suddenly when it gets warm. It has always done this - I've owned it since 72,000 miles.. I've grown used to it. Personally I don't like breaking open an engine unless it's essential.. so I've left it

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

I've always found the motor a bit noisy, and rattly on startup, but after about 3 min of running on the road it quietens, very noticeably and suddenly when it gets warm. It has always done this - I've owned it since 72,000 miles.. I've grown used to it. Personally I don't like breaking open an engine unless it's essential.. so I've left it

Mines the same, the temp gets to a certain point ans it quietens down, however its not great and the rattle noise varies with throttle position too. Its not bad with the cruise control on but it could be quieter.
I think it will have to be done and reported on.

 

[Beau]

Just wandering, but what is it that makes the D4D engine so noisy and tappet, just the injectors? Like mentioned, these things sound like this out from the factory?

The KZ lump actually sounds a lot quieter and refined in comparison.

 

[Shayne]

This might explain it Beau http://www.dieselhub.com/tech/idi-vs-di.html

 

[Iwan]

The injector style looks very similar to Bob's rav4 injectors the fuel inlet has an acute angle to them to fit over the inlet cam.

One main reason why they sound tappety is because the cam lobes have been reduced so much to fit the extra cam and the massive injectors in comparison.
The only research that Ive done is how to make the injectors mechanical fueling.
The pic is of the 2.4 but have the same configuration as the 3.0 as far as I can see. So thats what to expect as you delve in!
Hope the info helps!

 

[mrdelmonti]

Toyota Australia did (may have changed) recommend reconditioning/rebuilding the injectors at 100k on the 1KD.

 

[silvercruiser]

I have said it few times in Various posts, my LC, now sitting on 83K sounds like a bag of nails at certain throttle positions when cold, as soon as it warms up its a lot quieter.

I do have the new techstream for windows 10 sitting here so i need to have a play with it. and check out what my readings are on the injectors.

Does anyone know how easy this techstream is to use?

 

[Beau]

This might explain it Beau http://www.dieselhub.com/tech/idi-vs-di.html

Had a quick read and it actually says Direct injection has a advantage over Indirect injection in, and I quote.

"Lower Noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH)"

Puzzled. Must be the cam lobes mentioned above, leading to more of a valve lash kinda noise due to the steepness of the lobes.

 

[Rob Cowell]

I don't know what Techstream version I have, but it should just be a case of looking at the live diagnostics with the engine running. You want to watch the Injection Feedback values. They want to be within +/- 3.0, but ideally closer to +/- 1. They should get closer to 1 as they warm up.

I'm afraid I don't do pictures or explanations remotely close to Bob's but the pics of when I did mine are here https://www.landcruiserclub.net/community/threads/injector-swap.145851/

In addition to injectors you really want these bits, the part numbers are for my 2005 120, yours may be different.

090904-30013 Gasket x 5 (Rail crush washers)
011213-30021 Gasket x 1 (Rocker cover gasket)
023681-30010 Nozzle seal x 4 (Rocker cover seal for injector - you can probably reuse these but they're cheap, I think Milners do them)
011176-30011 Injector seal x 4 (SDS provided copper, these are the new alu ones)
096721-19017 Seal x 4 (Injector O-ring, SDS injectors had these fitted, but I used my OEM ones as I'd bought them)
090209-10021 Washer x 4 (Crush washer for injector clamp)

In theory the injector pipes are single-use, but in reality you can reuse if you don't bend them. It's nice to have some compressed air to blow them through.

 

[Shayne]

Had a quick read and it actually says Direct injection has a advantage over Indirect injection in, and I quote.

"Lower Noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH)"

My thinking is direct injection demands petrol like precision and so is unforgiving whereas indirect is agricultural and very forgiving .

We all know fuel quality has suffered a lot in the last couple of decades in order to kill the planet quicker and diesel was never a precision fuel anyway .

A bit of carbon build up and precision goes out the window , i imagine its a bit like having a dirty needle in a carburettor .

All assumption of course but i do chuck a bottle of injector cleaner into both my trucks quite regular .

 

[Ben Stratford]

Just had fuel pump delivery valve seals replaced as leaking and certainly affecting fuel atomisation.
This manifested itself in lack of power, very noisy and worse vibration than usual especially when cold.
The result is more power, much less noise and vibration. All for very little cost.
It may be worth checking if the D4D noise issues are related to this

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Just had fuel pump delivery valve seals replaced as leaking and certainly affecting fuel atomisation.
This manifested itself in lack of power, very noisy and worse vibration than usual especially when cold.
The result is more power, much less noise and vibration. All for very little cost.
It may be worth checking if the D4D noise issues are related to this

Well Ben Its just a bit different I'm afraid and its only the rattle I've got, there's a stack of power, its very smooth and according to my mate Al, who followed me for 50 miles on Saturday puts absolutely nothing out.

Anyway I've got a battle plan in place.

I spoke to the diesel guy I've used for decades this afternoon and he says he can test them for £12 each. However his advice is that in his experience its likely to be just one injector and the only place to get a definitive answer is the Toyota dealer. This is obviously good advice as I don't have to take it to bits first.
Rang Toyota service and the guy was conversant in Cruiser dialect so for £40 its going in tomorrow to have a health check on the injectors and then we'll see.