Defender

Gary820

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I've previously interviewed to work for JLR for their technical department!

There's a lot of bad press with that Defender situation, cocking up with the replacement makes it worse!!!!
If it wasn't for the YouTube channel I think it'd be a battle to get to where they have.


I try to get it through to our younger and inexperienced guys the fault code isn't gospel, it's a guide most of the time.
 
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Shayne

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Had technical involved, lots of various programming patches by myself and technical, 6.5k in parts and 26 hours clocked to it!!!

Oscilloscope testing etc to monitor signals eventually found the software that went wrong corrupted multiple components!! Seems it downloaded a glitch.

The only actual fault/complaint was the head up display (shows speed etc on the windscreen for the driver) didn't work after the update.
Had some sleepless nights with that one and lots of time staring at computer screens!!
This in itself is nuts surely if this junk is to be forced upon people it should be a simple case of swapping the hard drive for a new one so the old one can be sent back and mark 2 will have addressed all known errors in the previous system .
 
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chapel gate

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near, leek staffs.
in all fairness its a ground up new vehicle being produced from a brand new shiny factory. theres gonna be some teething problems.

if these persist after a couple of years thats a different matter.

































ok, you can all stop kicking me now...
 
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Gary820

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This in itself is nuts surely if this junk is to be forced upon people it should be a simple case of swapping the hard drive for a new one so the old one can be sent back and mark 2 will have addressed all known errors in the previous system .
While I agree to a point, it's sometimes not that simple.

The vehicle i had there was no particular harddrive, 40 odd control units and a little piece of software that corrupted multiple items. Only stopped 1 thing working on the car.
It was an isolated incident but the results of that a potential error that could've effected thousands of cars was found and fixed.

Driving a computer around things can go wrong.
 
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Towpack

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It isn't that simple, but it could be if manufacturers make it so. Having worked in IT for the last 20 years of my working life and you look at what computers/computing is capable of, not just in communications but in everything from CAD to sending people into space and you see vehicles with problems like this they can't find or fix it's a joke. What does the computer(s) and electronics in a car do? They run a ICE, "active" driveline options like traction control, ABS, lane assist, collision avoidance etc..etc in addition to the usual stuff like climate control Sat Nav, entertainment system etc but in computing terms it's nothing. Shayne makes a very good point above in that it would be so easy to make a modular generic control system for all vehicles but that would mean all manufacturers working together and agreeing on designs, standards and processes and we can't have that, can we? They're quite happy to do their own thing and lockdown their vehicle control systems so you have to take it to one of their dealers and pay their prices. JMO
Rant over.
 

AdventureWagon

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I'm not eager to go much more modern than my Lancer or Prado, we hired a Kia Sportage on holiday and the active BS just clogged up the drivers display with messages etc. So distracting. Hated that car!

Can't help but think LR haven't done themselves any favours reusing the Defender name. A bit like Holden flogging a Vauxhall Insignia as the new Commodore. Just served to alienate the Holden fanboys.
 

Shayne

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What i mean is they can all make an identical yet individual key for their cars so why can't they make a removable black box putting all the digital demons in one place same as the ecu , the LR that started this thread could then have been fixed in an hour on day one .
 

karl2000

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I'm not eager to go much more modern than my Lancer or Prado, we hired a Kia Sportage on holiday and the active BS just clogged up the drivers display with messages etc. So distracting. Hated that car!
I had to drive a new'ish Mercedes recently as a hire car. Big bright TV screen in the middle of the dashboard burning my eyes out and the thing was beeping every 5 seconds telling me not to go to sleep. Not the most relaxing drive I've ever had.

In contrast I've got a 20 year old Mercedes which is great. Progress eh!
 

karl2000

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While I agree to a point, it's sometimes not that simple.
Embedded systems are difficult to debug. While in theory a lot could be done to improve the situation, I suspect that in practice each control unit is developed by different software teams and their own egos will get in the way.

All software is difficult to develop, deploy and debug; complicated software is very difficult to develop, deploy and debug!

The most reliable code is the code you didn't have to write (ie design). :D
 
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Gary820

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I'd love just one main control module, would probably sleep better on a night haha.

We have a few modules that do that to a point. They integrated a load of body functions into 1 unit where there might have been 4 or 5. Rarely goes wrong either.

Lots of modules, made by different companies, coded by different people... what could possibly go wrong hahaha. :tearsofjoy:

Incidentally spent most of today re trimming some leather seats and fitted a couple of windscreens, easy day today ;)
 
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goodoldboy

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What a nightmare .Whilst I don't subscribe to the false nostalgia of a golden age it seems that car design peaked in the early 90s where the balance between decent toys , fuel consumption and reliability was best.The Audi/VW cars i owned from this era had galvanised panels , 6 speed gearboxes & fuel economy the wasn't bettered until a few years ago. The best cars i owned , Toyotas and Hondas nor withstanding
 

Shayne

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Makes winning the lottery almost worrying .
If i did do i go to a dealer asking for a hundred grand laptop with wheels and most specifically one running beta software because i would really enjoy not getting to my destination because there is nothing wrong with my car - or would i go to a motor museum intent on buying an exhibit :think:
 

Grimbo

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Makes winning the lottery almost worrying .
If i did do i go to a dealer asking for a hundred grand laptop with wheels and most specifically one running beta software because i would really enjoy not getting to my destination because there is nothing wrong with my car - or would i go to a motor museum intent on buying an exhibit :think:
No problem for me ....
A full Aussie spec stretched 200 series with a canopy would be the only new car I'd buy ....
The rest ?
Full nut and bolt resto on the 80
Replace my much missed Manta 400
Metro 6R4
SWB Audi Quattro
RWD Mk 4 Escort for old times sake .....with atmo cossie engine
M4A1 E8 Sherman
Long nose Scania V8 to tow the toys
Mk 9 Spitfire
And a small bungalow on a large plot of land with a hoofing workshop to keep them all in .......actually skip the bungalow I'll live in the workshop amongst the toys ;-)
 

mettisse

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thank you all, I’ve enjoyed reading these comments, some gave me a chuckle and others made me groan inside, how sad that an Icon as the defender ( I’ve never owned one) is now the subject of such derision. I have to admit it’s a handsome vehicle, but the reports on the tube really demolish in me any desire to own this latest model. The advert for the new James Bond film looks good, they throw the car about in a sensational way, but I would love to see the unedited version eh? Of course JLR will sell lots of them, why? I suppose the lack of not much else on the market, me? I would look closely at the Grenadier first, for what I want to do, that fits my requirements more than the Defender, but, that will still have all the electronic wizardry won’t it? I dunno, I think as stated previously, a ground up restoration of the 80 series Bruiser might, not only be cheaper, but actually give me what I want. I still own the 1994 Discovery 1 I bought new, ( 300tdi) it did circa 250k miles before the engine was worn out, put a low mileage (60kmiles) engine/ auto box) in it still going strong, I’d say that was good value. My bruiser did approx same mileage before a rebuild cost £loadsa now has circa 350k miles, Ive enjoyed both. My regret is that I should have bought the bruiser new not the Disco.
5904B96A-04C0-4CDF-8E7F-5E81C5C08825.jpeg
 
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Dervis Garip

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Believe this to be a spot of bad luck but then again luck is what you make it right?

If this was Toyota or Honda etc would this happen?

In 2003 bought an Audi TT, which was two months old as they had more customers than vehicles they were selling like hotcakes. Bought one finally and you wouldn't believe it if I was to tell you in the two months owning it spent more time in the dealer's garage, From tracking being out to lights on the dashboard coming on, etc.

The final straw was when I was told by a neighbor's worker working there in the garage as an apprentice that they had to take the whole engine & gearbox out. Why? because engine oil was going into the gearbox if I remember correctly.

The garage didn't tell me other than they will fix it. Totally dishonest Audi dealership. They offered me a courtesy car and I refused. In finding out I called citizens' advice and they said I can ask for my money back so I did with a written formal letter saying there was no trust in Audi and this product even though they offered me another vehicle.

Got my money back never looked back. Went to the Honda dealership and bought a demonstrator S2000 model for less money and a whole lot of better service, trust, and the vehicle you couldn't even compare.

My thoughts are Japanese vehicles last the test of time, German vehicles do not as to their makeup. In less throwaway societies abroad Japanese vehicles are sort after and people keep their vehicles much longer than 10 plus years easily.
 
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SteveJB

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Don't think the military will be using this as its not sqaudie proof and also reckon that you would have to have atleast 2 40foot containers full of electricarry just to diagnose the fault and a few more for the spare parts think its been said before you can compare the two as with the old series and then defender they were basic utility trucks with just high and low range this thing would probably have more complex computer power the the bloody space shuttle and they con cannibalise that get back to earth so get some more chefs as the squadie marches on his stomach
 
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