eu in or out poll

[MarkW]

Good man. I love a good argument. Err, debate.

 

[ByronJ]

Best political quote I've seen since Camerons announcement...
"Didn't get his own way, won't lead the country, Mr Cameron you sir are a coward and will be remembered as the PM who stamped his feet and spat his dummy out!!"

Not so sure. I think Cameron's resignation was a smart political move as he has piled serious pressure on Boris and the other prominent Brexiter's.

 

[chadr]

Not so sure. I think Cameron's resignation was a smart political move as he has piled serious pressure on Boris and the other prominent Brexiter's.

I have to agree. DC had no mandate to continue - even though he could have quite legitimately continued as PM. It wouldn't have mattered which side he was on, if he lost that was it - game over. He has also, as pointed out, quite smartly put the pressure on the next (pro-Leave?) PM and allies.

A bit like a CEO putting all his/her eggs in one basket and pushing for a particular business strategy, only to be voted down in the shareholder's AGM. Where next? Resignation is the only option as your position has become untenable IMHO.

 

[hopeless wanderer]

I have to agree. DC had no mandate to continue - even though he could have quite legitimately continued as PM. It wouldn't have mattered which side he was on, if he lost that was it - game over. He has also, as pointed out, quite smartly put the pressure on the next (pro-Leave?) PM and allies.

A bit like a CEO putting all his/her eggs in one basket and pushing for a particular business strategy, only to be voted down in the shareholder's AGM. Where next? Resignation is the only option as your position has become untenable IMHO.

I wonder if he has the courage to poison the chalice before offering it to his successor ?
If parliament has to vote to invoke article 50 as some are suggesting then this could all be a pointless exercise (I'm sure someone on here will confirm it)
If he starts the ball rolling with article 50 and walks away to write his memoirs, then who ever steps up to the plate is going to be in real trouble. The Lib Dems in a desperate grasp at post coalition credibility have already said they will call a halt to the proceedings.
Labour are too busy knifing their own leader to offer any credible options for the long term, the heir apparent and the rest of the Conservative contenders leave me at a loss to decide who is the most incompetent Jeremy Hunt, Michael Gove or Theresa May.

P.S.
I'd brim my tank if i were you.

 

[Shayne]

Article 50 should be delayed as long as possible because Britain's ties relate to hundreds and thousands of lucrative contracts written by hundreds and thousands of men and women on the make , and at this very moment no doubt Marco is on the phone to Jimmy saying listen we have a good thing going here so lets not let them fuck it up if they levy fees we can split the difference or otherwise we can find a back door .

caMoron saying it should be done by the end of August shows how little he cares about this country or its people .

Money makes the world go round and greed rules it , give the movers and shakers time to regroup rules don't matter a damn to them and while they are working to protect their personal wealth interference from the EU will be a nuisance - a common enemy .

 

[moggy1968]

Article 50 should be delayed as long as possible because Britain's ties relate to hundreds and thousands of lucrative contracts written by hundreds and thousands of men and women on the make , and at this very moment no doubt Marco is on the phone to Jimmy saying listen we have a good thing going here so lets not let them fuck it up if they levy fees we can split the difference or otherwise we can find a back door .

caMoron saying it should be done by the end of August shows how little he cares about this country or its people .

Money makes the world go round and greed rules it , give the movers and shakers time to regroup rules don't matter a damn to them and while they are working to protect their personal wealth interference from the EU will be a nuisance - a common enemy .

I don't agree, no one is signing contracts as long as they don't know what is happening, we need to get on with it to end the uncertainty. The longer this drags on the worse it will be, trouble is, Cameron doesn't have the balls for it, and I suspect he knows that by hanging on he's fucking it up, that way he can walk away saying 'I told you so' because he hasn't given the country a fair chance to make a decent exit.

 

[Shayne]

The contracts are already in place Moggy they need time to work out how to protect them when the gestapo is unleashed .

 

[MarkW]

I'm confused, the UK voted out but now you say they mechanism for starting that process should be delayed as long as possible? IMHO that seems to be contradictory.

In my industry, contracts are very definately not being placed and that's putting peoples jobs at risk now

 

[Shayne]

If Bill Gates gets divorced should he just walk out the door with a spare set of clothes in a carrier bag ?

 

[Rob Cowell]

We need a few weeks for the Tories to sort themselves out. The prospective PMs will, I assume, sketch out their approach to negotiations to help the party members decide who to pick. This will afterall form pretty much everything they will be able to accomplish during their tenure before the next general election.

Boris, for example, was in The Times this moring saying that free trade was more important than immigration. Hunt (please no) thinks we should hold off invoking article 50 untill after the next general election or hold a second referendum to agree on the balance between trade and free-movment that we want to propose.

As I understand it we will need a load of top-notch negotiators, contract and constitutional lawyers, and the civil service very likley doesn't have everyone they need. So there will need to be some hiring before we'd want to say "Go". I'm guessing if you update your LinkedIn profile with "contract negotiator" you'd be getting an espscially large number of recruitment consulatants telling you how impressed they are with your experience in the coming weeks.

But I agree all of this is causing uncertainty. I can't see they'll be anything other than economic stagnation until negotiations are well underway and it's clear how they might turn out. I worry that doesn't give the UK many bargaining chips. There are only so many BMWs we can promise to buy.

 

[MarkW]

Not sure what Bill Gates has to do with the issue except he lost over a billion dollars as a result (not that makes any difference to his wealth)

Seems the German Carmakers have other ideas about trade with the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36646251

 

[Rob Cowell]

Not sure what Bill Gates has to do with the issue except he lost over a billion dollars as a result (not that makes any difference to his wealth)

Seems the German Carmakers have other ideas about trade with the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36646251

I do wonder how much Wissmann has his industries interests at heart here. I can't work out why they'd care about free movement. He seems to have had a long and varied career with the Christian Democrats. I find it hard to believe there isn't some significant political motivation here. I'd be more interested to know what the CEOs of the big companies think.

 

[MarkW]

Totally Rob, we are a sizeable market for the german car makers can't see them losing a good income for nothing.

 

[Shayne]

BMW is a household name so good for propaganda but who owns it

Strategic investors: 46.7%
Institutional investors: 39.7%
North America: 13.5%
United Kingdom and Ireland: 7.7%
Other Europe: 12.1%
Germany: 3.5%
Rest of the world: 3.0%
Other investors: 13.6%

These are the movers and shakers who will i believe sort out this mess if only by proxy while working to protect their own wealth , and they need time .

 

[Rob Cowell]

Totally Rob, we are a sizeable market for the german car makers can't see them losing a good income for nothing.

But... What if the EU play hardball. They put tariffs on our stuff. We put tariffs on theirs. Assuming not many people stay manufacturing in the UK because lets face it they are here as a way to get into Europe tariff free, then all that happens in cars cost more here. We'll still buy them.

Also the negotiations need, I think, 20 out of 27 countires to agree. Yes, we mean a lot to Germany, about 8% of their exports I think. For for everyone else I think we are less than 5% of the economy. The mistake is to compare our imports from the whole EU with our exports. In reality it only makes a big difference to a few places, and they only get 1 vote each.

 

[chapel gate]

I don't agree, no one is signing contracts as long as they don't know what is happening, we need to get on with it to end the uncertainty. The longer this drags on the worse it will be, trouble is, Cameron doesn't have the balls for it, and I suspect he knows that by hanging on he's fucking it up, that way he can walk away saying 'I told you so' because he hasn't given the country a fair chance to make a decent exit.

Agreed. The media are running riot making the most of the "chaos". Leave this too long and its going to fall apart.
Brexit politicians need to step up and show some leadership.

 

[chapel gate]

But... What if the EU play hardball. They put tariffs on our stuff. We put tariffs on theirs. Assuming not many people stay manufacturing in the UK because lets face it they are here as a way to get into Europe tariff free, then all that happens in cars cost more here. We'll still buy them.

Also the negotiations need, I think, 20 out of 27 countires to agree. Yes, we mean a lot to Germany, about 8% of their exports I think. For for everyone else I think we are less than 5% of the economy. The mistake is to compare our imports from the whole EU with our exports. In reality it only makes a big difference to a few places, and they only get 1 vote each.

Hmm, start making our own cars again?

 

[Rob Cowell]

Hmm, start making our own cars again?

I eagerly await the new Allegro.

Of course we have Ariel, Aston Martin, McLaren, TVR. I'd buy one of each, but I don't think any of them would make it up the track to my house.

 

[chapel gate]

I eagerly await the new Allegro.

Of course we have Ariel, Aston Martin, McLaren, TVR. I'd buy one of each, but I don't think any of them would make it up the track to my house.

A landrover would.. we had the brands and have the skills, the only thing that ruined the british car industry was bad management..

 

[Rob Cowell]

A landrover would.. we had the brands and have the skills, the only thing that ruined the british car industry was bad management..

A Land Rover would, but it's not British. Do we have any brands left? The Chinese have Austin and Morris. The Indians have Rover.

Management was short-sighted and slow to react, but intransigent unions hardly helped that flexibility.

On the bright-side I reckon you'll be able to pick up a car plant in Swindon or Sunderland for pennies pretty soon. Just need to convince investors a British car is a solid bet.