eu in or out poll

[MarkW]

The same can be send for both sides of the argument, both scare mongering and using BS to justify their position

 

[Paddler Ed]

Thats because their entire campaign to remain in the EU is about fear! Fear of leaving!

It amazes me that anyone would vote to remain, I can only imagine they must be very out of touch with reality!

Or you can look at it and see where the trade is with, the lack of large scale domestically owned manufacturing, and the services that we provide to the rest of Europe.

Frankfurt etc will be more than happy to pick up the financial markets if we leave the EU (there goes the financial services industry), Manufacturing is dominated by the automotive industry; VW and BMW will more than happily move production of Bentley, Rolls Royce and MINI to Europe (as it is IIRC the MINI Countryman is made in Austria), as will Nissan, Toyota and Honda... Ford and GM won't be far behind, and there'll no longer be the European development funding to dangle as a carrot for redevelopment (which I suspect is what drew them in in the first place) As the services market is the only we export more than we import, I don't think we're in that crash hot position... see here from the ONS

OK, we might get the ownership of some of the power companies etc back from EDF/GDF etc, but the privatisation of the 1980's saw to the end of those (amusingly, all bought by substantially nationalised industries...)

We do need to look at who we would end up trading with - do you fancy a free trade agreement with China like the Aussies have just got?! I don't think that's any better than the EU... and that's what is most likely to end up with.

Unlike Norway, we have bugger all for a sovereign wealth fund as we didn't do anything about it when we opened up the pot of gold that the North Sea oil was, so that limits what we can do - and it's a bit of a case of after the horse has bolted to do it now...

Lastly, whilst we are only here for perhaps another 40 - 60 years (depending on who we're talking about) I'd quite like my kids to have the option of where they work - I enjoyed working in France the time I did, but if we left the EU we'd not have that ability - instead, stuck in the UK during a downturn, and who knows how long that would last for... Being in the EU means you can always head somewhere else for some work, as the UK tends to sit between the US and EU economic cycles.

 

[Shayne]

Self promotion seems to be the driving force on both sides of the argument which gives a very good indication of where we are at with regards to Britain's destiny .

Since the referendum hit the headlines the Tony Benn letter from 1975 posted on this thread is perhaps the only material i have read that reaches the heart of the matter .

Incidentally Farage's office said they cannot use the letter in their campaign because it is too long

 

[Chas]

Another thing, the EU is already failing from what I've read, so if we do leave and the EU collapses who will have the finger of blame pointed at them, you don't need three guesses.

 

[Graham]

Thats because their entire campaign to remain in the EU is about fear! Fear of leaving!

It amazes me that anyone would vote to remain, I can only imagine they must be very out of touch with reality!

I agree entirely with your posts Ben,
The whole "Remain" is built around the fear of leaving, and the unknown.

Have the "Remain" all turned into a bunch of cowards now?

What happened to their Great British spirits?
Looks like all washed away by the Eurocrats,

Whatever would our great forefathers be thinking now about these quitters who believe we need Europe to help us, and to keep us on our feet, ?

We are not ready to roll over and keep on blindly in submissions to Brussels.

We are better than that, and when we do leave, which I am sure we will if folk get out to vote, the for sure, others will follow our stance on exit,

 

[chapel gate]

I agree entirely with your posts Ben,
The whole "Remain" is built around the fear of leaving, and the unknown.

Have the "Remain" all turned into a bunch of cowards now?

What happened to their Great British spirits?
Looks like all washed away by the Eurocrats,

Whatever would our great forefathers be thinking now about these quitters who believe we need Europe to help us, and to keep us on our feet, ?

We are not ready to roll over and keep on blindly in submissions to Brussels.

We are better than that, and when we do leave, which I am sure we will if folk get out to vote, the for sure, others will follow our stance on exit,

I think a lot of politicians are scared that if we do leave they will actually have to start earning there money again, doing what they are payed to do, and that is running the country properly for its citizens. Rather than having brussels make the decisions for them and constantly saying there hands are tied..

 

[Rob Cowell]

I think a lot of politicians are scared that if we do leave they will actually have to start earning there money again, doing what they are payed to do, and that is running the country properly for its citizens. Rather than having brussels make the decisions for them and constantly saying there hands are tied..

I think that might apply to lots of people. When you can't dump your rubble at the local tip. When you can't compete with your global market in manufactured goods because your labour costs are too high. When NHS treatment needs to be funded by private health insurance (as per Nige's vision). We'll need to find someone else to blame.

Incidently I can't remember MPs saying their hands are tied by the EU. Sure they must have but nothing I recall. Hands tied into having to introduce limits on working hours perhaps, but that was worked around. Quite a few times the ECHR has muddied the waters but I think we're still committed to that even if the Tories get their way and change the HRA.

 

[chapel gate]

I think that might apply to lots of people. When you can't dump your rubble at the local tip. When you can't compete with your global market in manufactured goods because your labour costs are too high. When NHS treatment needs to be funded by private health insurance (as per Nige's vision). We'll need to find someone else to blame.

Incidently I can't remember MPs saying their hands are tied by the EU. Sure they must have but nothing I recall. Hands tied into having to introduce limits on working hours perhaps, but that was worked around. Quite a few times the ECHR has muddied the waters but I think we're still committed to that even if the Tories get their way and change the HRA.

Yet another healthy dose of scaremongering..!

 

[Rob Cowell]

Yet another healthy dose of scaremongering..!

Really? Which bit?

 

[MarkW]

Dumping Rubble at your local tip - if your a business you need to pay your way, its not a free service like household waste. Take your rubble to a trade site and pay up.

Manufacturing non competitive due to high labour rates - well the workers want a better standard of living so the manufacturers have to pay more in wages, this cuts into profits, so many move manufacturing over seas where labour is cheaper and they can make more profit.

MP's blaming the EU that their hands are tied - well everyone needs a scape goat when they get caught cocking things up, the EU is the biggest scape goat in the UK (and both the In and Out camps use this well)

 

[Rob Cowell]

Yes. I wasn't suggesting these were things that would be worse if we leave the EU. Just examples of things people blame the EU for. Some of which have no relation to the EU. Some of which some influence can be argued but leaving is far from guaranteed to improve them. If it doesn't new scapegoats will be required.

 

[MarkW]

Wasn't having a go at your post Rob

Just posting some reality to some issues both sides use

 

[Ben]

Or you can look at it and see where the trade is with, the lack of large scale domestically owned manufacturing, and the services that we provide to the rest of Europe.

Frankfurt etc will be more than happy to pick up the financial markets if we leave the EU (there goes the financial services industry), Manufacturing is dominated by the automotive industry; VW and BMW will more than happily move production of Bentley, Rolls Royce and MINI to Europe (as it is IIRC the MINI Countryman is made in Austria), as will Nissan, Toyota and Honda... Ford and GM won't be far behind, and there'll no longer be the European development funding to dangle as a carrot for redevelopment (which I suspect is what drew them in in the first place) As the services market is the only we export more than we import, I don't think we're in that crash hot position... see here from the ONS

OK, we might get the ownership of some of the power companies etc back from EDF/GDF etc, but the privatisation of the 1980's saw to the end of those (amusingly, all bought by substantially nationalised industries...)

We do need to look at who we would end up trading with - do you fancy a free trade agreement with China like the Aussies have just got?! I don't think that's any better than the EU... and that's what is most likely to end up with.

Unlike Norway, we have bugger all for a sovereign wealth fund as we didn't do anything about it when we opened up the pot of gold that the North Sea oil was, so that limits what we can do - and it's a bit of a case of after the horse has bolted to do it now...

Lastly, whilst we are only here for perhaps another 40 - 60 years (depending on who we're talking about) I'd quite like my kids to have the option of where they work - I enjoyed working in France the time I did, but if we left the EU we'd not have that ability - instead, stuck in the UK during a downturn, and who knows how long that would last for... Being in the EU means you can always head somewhere else for some work, as the UK tends to sit between the US and EU economic cycles.

So you dont believe the UK can or will survive without EU membership and EU money!

OK

Just supposing you are correct............

What happens when the EU collapses within the next 2-5 years as has been predicted by many highly qualified people, like the chap in the video I posted before, which I will post again below:

What happens then?

The EU ship is going to sink, its already hit the iceberg, its now listing quite badly and its going down!

Forgetting all the problems and expense Merkel and her cronies have created by inviting millions of impoverished migrants in.

Forgetting the fact that the EU will soon grant Turkey full membership and give its 80 million citizens freedom to travel to Europe where they will be free to begin claiming benefits, health care, schooling etc.

Forgetting all of that.............

France and Italy cannot grow their way out of the massive debt they are in so at some point that bubble is going to burst, as predicted within the next 3-5 years!

So if your correct in believing the UK cant and wont survive on its own and the guys that actually know what they are talking about are correct............................

Then the UK will be doubly f****d as not only will we have to continue to be governed by unelected faceless bureaucrats in Brussels, allow potentially millions more poor, economic migrants in. But then, then we will also have to pay huge sums of money out to try and bail out France and Italy as they sink under their mountain of debt.

Sounds bloody perfect mate, lets do it! Because the UK needs EU membership, we cant survive on our own!

 

[Ben]

Another thing, the EU is already failing from what I've read, so if we do leave and the EU collapses who will have the finger of blame pointed at them, you don't need three guesses.

We may get the blame but it will be far better to get out now, survive and flourish rather than go down with the rest of them!

They may blame us but I'm sure many will wish they had been able to get out themselves!

 

[Chas]

We may get the blame but it will be far better to get out now, survive and flourish rather than go down with the rest of them!

They may blame us but I'm sure many will wish they had been able to get out themselves!

You're quite right Ben, my out vote has already been posted.

 

[Brian S]

Roll on the 23rd so I to can vote leave

 

[Andy]

Dear Prime Minister The RT. Hon. David Cameron, MP.

I wish to ask you a Question:- "Is This True?"

I refer to the Pension Reality Check.

Are you aware of the following ?

The British Government provides the following financial assistance:-


BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER
(bearing in mind they worked hard and paid their Income Tax and
National Insurance contributions to the British Government all their
working life)

Weekly allowance: £106.00?

IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN
(No Income Tax and National Insurance contribution whatsoever)

Weekly allowance: £250.00


BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER
Weekly Spouse Allowance:£25.00?


ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN
Weekly Spouse Allowance:£225.00


BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER
Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £0.00?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN
Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £100.00


A British old age pensioner is no less hard up than an illegal
immigrant/refugee yet receives nothing

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER
TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT£6,000?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN
TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT:£29,900

Please read all and then forward to all your contacts so that we can
lobby for a decent state pension.

After all, the average pensioner has paid taxes and contributed to the
growth of this country for the last 40 to 60 years.

 

[chapel gate]

Absolute disgrace.

there was a article on the tv about the thousands of european prisoners in our jails that we cant send back to there own country to serve there sentence.
it costs about £60000 to imprison a person then about £40000 per year to keep them there..

 

[Chas]

Out will be our next democratic vote.
Remain will be our last democratic vote.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Dear Prime Minister The RT. Hon. David Cameron, MP.

Hard hitting stuff. Where did you get the figures from?