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eu in or out poll

Cultural marxism isn't the only subversive shite going on Chas, ever wonder why immigants seem to cluster in certain areas?

I assumed it was because they liked the camaraderie and support of a community they were familiar with. And there was somewhere to work. And somewhere they could afford to live. Look anywhere in the world and immigrants group together. Chinatowns. Brits in Southern Spain. British sports and social clubs in India and Africa. Welsh settlements in Patagonia. The Irish in New York. The Dutch in Southern Africa. Where would be examples of "natural migration" in the last couple of hundred years?
 
Where would be examples of "natural migration" in the last couple of hundred years?

Exactly.

Rob I'm not going to argue with you, I can't do the subject justice in a fourm post it'd require a dissertation, I ain't got the time or inclination, if you're really interested in it, research it yourself.
 
Exactly.

Rob I'm not going to argue with you, I can't do the subject justice in a fourm post it'd require a dissertation, I ain't got the time or inclination, if you're really interested in it, research it yourself.
oh dear Pumpy you seem to have tied yourself in knots.apart from posting a link to a batshit neo fascist website you back away from any opinions that you are challenged on.perhaps you could say in brief exactly what the problem is with immigrants?
 
I'm not sure why you think there will be any barriers to trade? as long as there is a demand for the products there will be a supply.
 
oh dear Pumpy you seem to have tied yourself in knots.apart from posting a link to a batshit neo fascist website you back away from any opinions that you are challenged on.perhaps you could say in brief exactly what the problem is with immigrants?

Don't be silly. There is no problem with immigrants, I think immigration is agenda driven, and Cultural marxism is still subversive shit, which is very different from thinking immigrants are a problem. My family are immigrants FFS.

I backed away because I don't have time for BS arguments, if I did have the time I wouldn't post the first link to a definition google spat out without checking it wasn't hosted on some bat shit crazy fascist BS website.
 
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This is also a new one on me. So is the cultural marxism theory a belief in a left-wing elite who seek to destroy Western civilisation through multiculturalism such that they can re-engineer that civilisation along Marxist ideologies?

:lol: It'd be a fine theory Rob, Were it not for the fact that "Western civilisation" only exists BECAUSE of immigration. There are no mono cultures left on earth with the exeption of a few untouched tribes.
It's always tickled me how the descendants of immigrants given a few generations forget their own origins and disregard the real reasons for everything ranging from a lack of social housing to unemployment and scapegoat the latest batch of newcomers.
Seriously... Australia First, Britain First, Whichever of the North American parties you choose really have me struggling to contain my laughter and control my bladder, Donald Trump is the obvious example, the guy is descended from a Bulgarian immigrants to America yet the rhetoric he uses would make you think his father was Chief Sitting Bull.
Britain has never stood alone in Europe or the world, either in war or in peace. We are a nation built on trade with others, a nation supplied and defended in times of war by various differing allies from other nations.
For example in the Crimea we fought with the French and the Ottoman Turks against the Russians but in world war I we fought against the Ottoman Turks.
Cornish tin was being sold to Phoenecian traders B.C. and an African woman was living in Yorkshire in the 4th century. Celts landed on the shores of Ireland and may well have been greeted by North Africans who had settled there centuries before the Angles migrated into England.

hmm reminds me of something

Reg: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
 
Its pointless trying to predict the future when the complexity of this divorce is staggering so from my corner this is just idle speculation on a rainy Sunday .

My gut feeling is that it has been decided behind closed doors that if the union is to survive then Britain must not .

The EU is renowned for refusing to reverse direction even when wrong and the best they could offer in response to what i am sure they understood to be a very real threat was project fear .

It didn't work but if you live in a eurocrat bubble it might seem reasonable to assume that project fear might sway other countries likely to escape if the EU can point at Britain and say well look what happened to them .
 
I backed away because I don't have time for BS arguments, if I did have the time I wouldn't post the first link to a definition google spat out without checking it wasn't hosted on some bat shit crazy fascist BS website.

If you want some good tinfoil hat material, have a look at how Google orders search results. And then consider what telling people what your first returned link is reveals about your use of Google.
 
Its pointless trying to predict the future when the complexity of this divorce is staggering so from my corner this is just idle speculation on a rainy Sunday .

My gut feeling is that it has been decided behind closed doors that if the union is to survive then Britain must not .

The EU is renowned for refusing to reverse direction even when wrong and the best they could offer in response to what i am sure they understood to be a very real threat was project fear .

It didn't work but if you live in a eurocrat bubble it might seem reasonable to assume that project fear might sway other countries likely to escape if the EU can point at Britain and say well look what happened to them .

I agree, despite the fine words of some of the other heads of state we will be punished severely for leaving, partly as a deterrent to other states and partly for good old economic gain.
We weren't at the table when the fisheries negotiations happened in the 70's and look where that got us, we won't be at the table to make our case and one thing is certain no fight is ever won from outside the ring.
As for immigrants that are propping up our service industry and our economy, if they get a better deal in Europe they'll leave and if we are frozen out we may well end up with the same problem Japan is facing, an ageing population with a dwindling workforce unable to make the contributions required to sustain their retirement.
I'm all for an upper age limit on voting, it's no use leaving the key decisions regarding the future to people who have no real vested interest.
 
If you want some good tinfoil hat material, have a look at how Google orders search results. And then consider what telling people what your first returned link is reveals about your use of Google.

That's a whole nother subject. Consider how better to stop people researching subversive techniques used by banksters than by associating them with bat shit crazy websites, as if Marx didn't even write about it. On a related note the etymology of "conspiracy theory" could be illuminating.
 
So mass immigration is not seen as a problem at all by some of you. What do you chaps see then as a ceiling of population in england? Or isnt there one? there will be no problems with 80 plus million people in england for example?
 
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So mass immigration is not seen as a problem at all by some of you. What do you chaps see then as a ceiling of population in england? Or isnt there one? there will be no problems with 80 plus million people in england for example?

In general I think numbers only become a problem when governments don't allocate expenditure on infrastructure to support the numbers. I think the deal we currently have with the EU whereby benefits aren't paid for four years works well. Current ONS figures show recent immigrants are net contributors, but my feeling is the government isn't reinvesting enough of that to support population growth.

I can understand the disappointment if the countryside you live in is being built on. I grew up on the edge of London and the policies of governments of all colours have concentrated UK economic growth there leading to migration from the rest of the country. That makes it incredibly vibrant and exciting place to be. But also depressing if you like to escape into space every now and then.

I think populations can be sensibly stabilised without using blunt immigration controls. Way back on page 4 of this thread @Pumpy linked to what I thought was a very sensible document about how the UK could move away from the EU. Not the end game I personally was looking for but I thought it talked a lot of sense about how population could be managed within the flexible movement framework provided by the EU.
 
I agree, despite the fine words of some of the other heads of state we will be punished severely for leaving, partly as a deterrent to other states and partly for good old economic gain..

My gut feeling also suggests , if indeed that is the plan , it will be their undoing because it would require other states to be 100% on board with the grand plan at a time when that plan has never seemed less likely to succeed .
 
In general I think numbers only become a problem when governments don't allocate expenditure on infrastructure to support the numbers. I think the deal we currently have with the EU whereby benefits aren't paid for four years works well. Current ONS figures show recent immigrants are net contributors, but my feeling is the government isn't reinvesting enough of that to support population growth.

I can understand the disappointment if the countryside you live in is being built on. I grew up on the edge of London and the policies of governments of all colours have concentrated UK economic growth there leading to migration from the rest of the country. That makes it incredibly vibrant and exciting place to be. But also depressing if you like to escape into space every now and then.

I think populations can be sensibly stabilised without using blunt immigration controls. Way back on page 4 of this thread @Pumpy linked to what I thought was a very sensible document about how the UK could move away from the EU. Not the end game I personally was looking for but I thought it talked a lot of sense about how population could be managed within the flexible movement framework provided by the EU.
Its a bit more than disapointment rob, its a way of life that some of us dont actually want to lose, and shouldnt have to. Everything has a saturation point. To me and many others it has been reached. People living in cities may not understand this.

A good freind of mine had enough a couple of years ago. And emigrated to canada with his wife, two young children and his toyota surf. Its the best thing he has ever done and wished he had done it years ago. rather than wasting his time and energy arguing with people and voting for goverments who cant see we do in fact have a population problem, and then for his efforts being called every name under the sun.

this may be the last throw of the dice for us, my missus is due any minute with our first child. We drove to norway with the rtt last year for three weeks and tbh the place was a revelation compared to, and i dont say this lightly, this overpopulated mess of a country where perfectly decent,hard working people, who happen to have a bit of pride in there history and culture. Cant voice perfectly reasonable concerns without being jumped on and having insults thrown at them by an arrogant,patronising bunch of left wing, undemocrating lunatics. Who are tbh no better than the far right.
 
So mass immigration is not seen as a problem at all by some of you. What do you chaps see then as a ceiling of population in england? Or isnt there one? there will be no problems with 80 plus million people in england for example?

Sustainable population density for any country is dependent on the conditions you're prepared to accept or the investment in infrastructure you're prepared to make.
Take Delhi as an example its population has doubled to around 20 million people over the last 40 years, without the investment people sleep on the central reservation of highways, on roundabouts wherever they can. Take a walk round the city on the night and there are tens of thousands people sleeping rough. Not just the mentally ill or alcoholics or whatever, but women, kids the elderly etc. No investment, no welfare state or social housing is the reason why.
Paris has a population density that's only lesser by about a 6th, it has its problems if you've left the glitzy centre and gone out to the various arrondissiments, but it is in no way comparable to Delhi thanks to investment by the French government.
The UK has only developed 2% of its landmass, there are huge swathes of land that could easily absorb 80 million or a hundred million if we make the investment. Intelligent urban planning and the construction of new towns would be an astute investment in the future and provide valuable jobs in the construction industry, revitalising the economy.
Social housing has been flogged off cheap to the benefit of property developers. Housing stock has not been replaced leading to shortages so great that people are housed in bed and breakfasts temporarily for years. This creates the impression of overcrowding and then begins the whole farcical scapegoating of immigrants as a sly way of diverting the blame from successive governments.
Population needs to grow in order to support the lifestyle of the elderly/retired, this is either through increasing birth rates or by immigration.
The population is going to grow, this is a fact we've known of for decades, we can either build to absorb it or we have to settle for grandma Smith living on the street like Granny Patel does.
 
I grew up on the edge of London
That makes it incredibly vibrant and exciting place to be. But also depressing if you like to escape into space every now and then.

I think populations can be sensibly stabilised without using blunt immigration controls..
The London you grew up in has drastically changed Rob. It is NOT incredibly vibrant and exciting it is depressing and different from the London I knew as a child.
We have to have blunt immigration controls, the real only way to stabilise the current population is to reduce the current numbers, this country is just to small to have unlimited immigration.
 
The UK has only developed 2% of its landmass, there are huge swathes of land that could easily absorb 80 million or a hundred million if we make the investment. Intelligent urban planning and the construction of new towns would be an astute investment in the future and provide valuable jobs in the construction industry, revitalising the economy.
.
Yeah! Why not make the whole of the UK one great big city? great idea, what about quality of life then? the green belt is already disappearing because of housing shortages brought about by the number od new immigrants.
 
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